So what do you do when the market ranges like mad?

Give back all your Big Wave profits?

You have some great examples and of course anyone could trade an ATR breakout and make 'gobs', but the trick is knowing that the market is going to do this or not. If you could predict for certain that a date is ranging or a day is trending then that alone would make you a billionaire within a couple years.

No offense to you personally, but the obvious has been printed in your thread here.

"If price moves up and keeps moving up, stay long!"

"If price reverses get out!"....

Sounds great, maybe I just don't get it...

bluemele 

So what do you do when the market ranges like mad? Give back all your Big Wave profits? Sounds great, maybe I just don't get it...

What happens if it ranges?
I'll draw rectangles.
And trade by awaiting price action to form from one end of the rectangle to the other

And if this does happen, usually it would break through the other end of the rectangle.
And this creates a new rectangle.
And the process repeats until the market starts trending.

Its very difficult to explain.

If it doesnt range as bad, then i'll draw triangles, ascending triangles,descending, symm triangles.. wedges,
Well you know.

bluemele 

So what do you do when the market ranges like mad? Give back all your Big Wave profits? You have some great examples and of course anyone could trade an ATR breakout and make 'gobs', but the trick is knowing that the market is going to do this or not. If you could predict for certain that a date is ranging or a day is trending then that alone would make you a billionaire within a couple years. No offense to you personally, but the obvious has been printed in your thread here. "If price moves up and keeps moving up, stay long!" "If price reverses get out!".... Sounds great, maybe I just don't get it...

My whole point is that the whole secret of great trading is being able to recognize the prevailing market conditions. Yes, I can tell if the market is choppy and is in a range. ...and I don't give the profits back, I simply don't trade. In fact, I"ll set price alarms to notify me when the range is broken. I won't even watch too closely until then so I won't be tempted to enter. And if the price breaks out of the range, I will then assess the current, real- time Market conditions. If I don't feel the momentum is sufficient to propel the price significantly, I will remain on the sidelines. You state that I'm basically implying, "If price moves up and keeps moving up, stay long!""If price reverses get out!"..... Again, one of the biggest dillemas for many traders is in deciding when to take profit or get out. It's not always obvious. I was trying to show that between certain techniques I use on Ninja Chart Trader and the software I use, I have been able to catch runners that I never could in the past . This was an issue for me ..getting out of trades too soon. If you are someone who can take a huge portion of a given move, then you are way ahead of where I was..as a trader. More power to you. A lot of traders, I believe struggle with the same issues I had. Not knowing when market conditions are choppy and highly unpredictable. Also, not knowing how long to remain in a winning trade. Again, if you never had those issues, then you are in the upper echelon of traders. Kudos to you.

Nasdin94 

What happens if it ranges? I'll draw rectangles. And trade by awaiting price action to form from one end of the rectangle to the other And if this does happen, usually it would break through the other end of the rectangle. And this creates a new rectangle. And the process repeats until the market starts trending. Its very difficult to explain. If it doesnt range as bad, then i'll draw triangles, ascending triangles,descending, symm triangles.. wedges, Well you know.

Excellent post.

lancelottrader 

My whole point is that the whole secret of great trading is being able to recognize the prevailing market conditions. Yes, I can tell if the market is choppy and is in a range. ...and I don't give the profits back, I simply don't trade. In fact, I"ll set price alarms to notify me when the range is broken. I won't even watch too closely until then so I won't be tempted to enter. And if the price breaks out of the range, I will then assess the current, real- time Market conditions. If I don't feel the momentum is sufficient to propel the price significantly, I will remain on the sidelines. You state that I'm basically implying, "If price moves up and keeps moving up, stay long!""If price reverses get out!"..... Again, one of the biggest dillemas for many traders is in deciding when to take profit or get out. It's not always obvious. I was trying to show that between certain techniques I use on Ninja Chart Trader and the software I use, I have been able to catch runners that I never could in the past . This was an issue for me ..getting out of trades too soon. If you are someone who can take a huge portion of a given move, then you are way ahead of where I was..as a trader. More power to you. A lot of traders, I believe struggle with the same issues I had. Not knowing when market conditions are choppy and highly unpredictable. Also, not knowing how long to remain in a winning trade. Again, if you never had those issues, then you are in the upper echelon of traders. Kudos to you.

Nope that is definitely not me, nor anyone I have yet to meet or even see trade.

You are right that it is a 'feel' of the market and it requires 'chart time', and I apologize as my post seems pretty insulting which it wasn't meant to be. I am tired of reading thread posts with the following:

"Indicators are the past..." and finish it with "...Volume is the predictor" OR "...Cumulative Delta is the predictor" OR "...Market Profile setups are the clear predictor" OR ...............

I guess we are in agreement. The only real indicator as PandaWarrior has named himself in gratitude is the person behind the mouse.

Lornz and you may have a special gift and that is great to share that, so please accept my apologies. But if you are given a block of stone to chisel from, people will come up with 10,000 ways to do it and none of them 'right'.

I am happy you can hit those long runs. Something I hope to aspire to! I just remember when I would trade trend, I would be up on my account and then give it all back because I didn't know when to stop! haha....

That all comes with exp. in my opinion which is something you point out!!!

Hello,


When reading your posts this reminded me of some experiences I had watching the eurodollar.


This is because there were a number of times when I had the following experience that I relatively “ certain” “ knew” price was going to fall or rise for a good move. Because if you watch an instrument live for several months you “ feel” that the candles and waves are more bearish or bullish behaving than ‘normal’.


The clues I could see it were just the way the candles were formed. You can see the candles get more “ jumpy” and you “ see and feel” that the downticks are made far easier /faster than the upticks ( in bearish case/short).



It is just that because I am not that experienced I am waiting like a good boy for a pullback. This while your inner voice also says “ there ain’t going to be a pullback” and just sell, it is falling now, the later you jump in the riskier it will be. Perfect pattern or not, this is just going down.


Of course, there is a good possibility is that I think I can feel those instances, but reality is different because my mind will filter out the times I’m wrong. I dare not to put real money in this ‘ feeling’ because there is no statistical backup for it. So this is maybe something I have to note down every time I think it will happen to see the actual results.


Is this what you are meaning or totally not?

bluemele 

Nope that is definitely not me, nor anyone I have yet to meet or even see trade. I am happy you can hit those long runs. Something I hope to aspire to! I just remember when I would trade trend, I would be up on my account and then give it all back because I didn't know when to stop! haha.... That all comes with exp. in my opinion which is something you point out!!!

Being I have lurked on here for a bit...I have read several of your posts and I definitely respect your opinion. As far as hitting the Home runs, that is fairly new for me. My prevalent style is scalping. I wouldn't consider these examples I gave "Trend Trades." They are more momentum moves that I follow closely with a manual trailing stop or a tight Ninja ATM strategy. Generally a 7 tick move against me and I'm out, but if I sense the move is a quick pullback because the price just bounced off a minor support or resistance level (but it still has some juice on it), I may withstand a 10 tick pullback, but that's pretty much it. Also, I try to move myself to breakeven as soon as possible. If I scratch a few trades, I'm ok with that.

Zwaen 

Hello, When reading your posts this reminded me of some experiences I had watching the eurodollar. This is because there were a number of times when I had the following experience that I relatively “ certain” “ knew” price was going to fall or rise for a good move. Because if you watch an instrument live for several months you “ feel” that the candles and waves are more bearish or bullish behaving than ‘normal’. The clues I could see it were just the way the candles were formed. You can see the candles get more “ jumpy” and you “ see and feel” that the downticks are made far easier /faster than the upticks ( in bearish case/short). It is just that because I am not that experienced I am waiting like a good boy for a pullback. This while your inner voice also says “ there ain’t going to be a pullback” and just sell, it is falling now, the later you jump in the riskier it will be. Perfect pattern or not, this is just going down. Of course, there is a good possibility is that I think I can feel those instances, but reality is different because my mind will filter out the times I’m wrong. I dare not to put real money in this ‘ feeling’ because there is no statistical backup for it. So this is maybe something I have to note down every time I think it will happen to see the actual results. Is this what you are meaning or totally not?

Yes, I think you are giving some great examples of what I'm writing about. I traded the euro/usd (Forex) almost exclusively for 3 years..watching it every trading day from about 9 am est untill 12 pm est. I got to know it real well and how it moved . For example, if you were to watch it around 11 am est, on many days the price would suddenly start accelerating. I would watch my chart and also my Broker Panel. You could see it really start to race. Now I would see that it would race up (or down ) depending on direction to the next level of price congestion..which my software would draw those areas..in real time. So, one technique I'd use was to enter 5 to 10 ticks away from the price congestion area..and if it failed to breakthrough..exit with my small profit. If it broke through, sometimes there would be a 20 to 50 pip move in less than 5 minutes. Now if the breakthrough occured at 9:10 am and there was very little price acceleration, I would not enter. More than likely, the breakout would fail. In fact, you could often win a small profit by taking the opposite direction. Also 10:40 am est often yields a big move in euro/usd...Not sure why. I figure 11 am, there is some European market closing, so I get that. But 10:40 is often great too. I have many charts I've saved of euro/usd with great 11 am and 10:40 moves. Anyhow, I know this is the Index Futures forum, so I don't want to get too far off track. I do see some amazing moves on TF at 3:45 pm est as well. Traders closing out their positions for the day causes some nice 'Runners." I guess the bottom line is if you watch these instruments long enough, you can start recognizing some high probability patterns. Then trading these patterns and starting to win consistently will help with the fear and hesitation involved in pulling the trigger.

lancelottrader 

Yes, I think you are giving some great examples of what I'm writing about. I traded the euro/usd (Forex) almost exclusively for 3 years..watching it every trading day from about 9 am est untill 12 pm est. I got to know it real well and how it moved . For example, if you were to watch it around 11 am est, on many days the price would suddenly start accelerating. I would watch my chart and also my Broker Panel. You could see it really start to race. Now I would see that it would race up (or down ) depending on direction to the next level of price congestion..which my software would draw those areas..in real time. So, one technique I'd use was to enter 5 to 10 ticks away from the price congestion area..and if it failed to breakthrough..exit with my small profit. If it broke through, sometimes there would be a 20 to 50 pip move in less than 5 minutes. Now if the breakthrough occured at 9:10 am and there was very little price acceleration, I would not enter. More than likely, the breakout would fail. In fact, you could often win a small profit by taking the opposite direction. Also 10:40 am est often yields a big move in euro/usd...Not sure why. I figure 11 am, there is some European market closing, so I get that. But 10:40 is often great too. I have many charts I've saved of euro/usd with great 11 am and 10:40 moves. Anyhow, I know this is the Index Futures forum, so I don't want to get too far off track. I do see some amazing moves on TF at 3:45 pm est as well. Traders closing out their positions for the day causes some nice 'Runners." I guess the bottom line is if you watch these instruments long enough, you can start recognizing some high probability patterns. Then trading these patterns and starting to win consistently will help with the fear and hesitation involved in pulling the trigger.

Lancelottrader, I was wondering if you could break your paragraphs up a bit kinda like I did on the most recent one. The unbroken paragraphs make it difficult for me to read and I think you have something worth reading. To be honest, I generally skip paragraphs with more than 3-4 sentences, even when I write them.....but I've made forced myself to read yours at least up to this point.

Don't take offense at my request, you write the way I talk and write. But I force myself to break my paragraphs apart once I've written them.....makes it easier for me to read what I've written.

Thanks for the thread, I've enjoyed it so far.

PandaWarrior 

Lancelottrader, I was wondering if you could break your paragraphs up a bit kinda like I did on the most recent one. The unbroken paragraphs make it difficult for me to read and I think you have something worth reading. To be honest, I generally skip paragraphs with more than 3-4 sentences, even when I write them.....but I've made forced myself to read yours at least up to this point. Don't take offense at my request, you write the way I talk and write. But I force myself to break my paragraphs apart once I've written them.....makes it easier for me to read what I've written. Thanks for the thread, I've enjoyed it so far.

Thanks for the suggestion...I see what you mean. Will do that next time.