that in Dec 2016, I answered "technically". I think I was trying to avoid controversy and not discourage. My most recent post in the ES swing thread is a little more terse. It is the one right below this thread in the list...or here:

Elite SPY SP500 Swing Trading Index Options Spoo-nalysis First, it does look like sentiment might be turning here 2688ish off rejection at the figure? Also, the long referenced in the post above was 71.50 closed on the "outside in" back in bot 83.50. That was a relief cover precipitated by what looked …

wldman 

Risk, Net Liquidation, Volatility, Position Sizing along with Products Traded are all considerations that are interrelated and important to determining chances of success. Here is an outline of a popular and very successful approach that was implemented in the early 1980's. 1) Create a volatility based constant percentage risk position sizing algorithm...one that normalizes the dollar volatility by adjusting position sizing. So positions that move a large dollar amount are typically fewer contracts than ones that move less in dollars. This means that different trades in different markets tend to have the same chance for a particular dollar gain or loss. This is/allows appropriate "diversification" across futures markets. So an account should be big enough to trade different sized positions across markets...how many dollars, I'm not sure. If you are crafty, you can build an algo that does all kinds of assessments across the field of items you trade. Getting programing help with this is why wldman came to this forum...still looking. So what do you use for volatility and the dollar volatility adjustment? Easy and numerous solutions, but here is a simple, clear and effective way. Start with ATR, specifically a 20 day exponential moving average of the true range. NOTE that I am using a Day time frame, that is extremely rare here in the forum as a day seems like an eternity for most of you guys. This is why every secret is safe....someone will immediately ask, will it work on 3 minute, what about 144 tick etc. Yes, just adjust your periodicity on your ATR calculation to 20 bars on whatever secret chart you are in love with. When you do the calculation on the special secret chart you will discover a CLUE, that is a big clue. Go back to the 20 DAY exponential MA but don't lose in your mind the frequency of trades increasing over shorter and shorter periodicity. The account has to be big enough to hang through some shit if you are serious. Okay, you need to determine the dollar volatility represented by the underlying markets ATR. Simple enough, take the numerical value for the 20 DAY exponential moving average of the product and multiply that by the dollar value per handle of the product. This is your "market dollar volatility". I'm doing this from memory, so bear with me and ask if something sounds stupid. So, back to account size...and this was a professional trading group (established). The rubber is going to hit the road here. To create a "unit" divide 1% of the account value by the market dollar volatility number. If you are trading a single market your maximum units is 3. So that would take care of one element of risk, the position sizing. If someone provides the ATR value for what they trade we can plug it and move to the next measure of risk. Right now I have to throw some crust and bake a pizza or two. If anyone thinks the discussion points matter just say so and I'll finish the next part of the idea...like I said, no point in typing this for the wldman. Dan

why are there 36 people viewing this thread and none viewing that ES swing thread?

Babool 

I second that. What is successful ? Not blowing out your account ?, breaking even ? , making a 100 bucks a day ?, a 1000 day ?, etc... ? The question so general that practically any answer on the list could suffice.

I agree , it depends on your broker for margins etc. . TOS requires about $5800 for one contract on the YM . It also depends on how good of a trader you are , so many variables .

linked prior post:

"A metaphor: A guy comes in for a free introductory lesson and opens with...Do you have a fight team? Yes, we have a fight team. Experienced guys are invited to a rigorous tryout and then selected based on how their participation will elevate the team. The response, Can I try out? Well tell me about your experience? I was a wrestler sophomore year in high school. Note...not senior year, meaning he did not continue. How many times did you place in State your sophomore year? Ha, if you do not know wldman can be pretty terse. None, but I watch the UFC on tv and it looks pretty cool. When was the last time you were punched or choked until you fell unconscious? Never, he said. Would it have been right for me to say...tryouts are tomorrow, see you at 6?

So, context:

IMO to be rightly in the game you must first establish if you belong (can be competitive) in the game. In my hallucination, that means to even consider "trading", which in reality is short term directional speculation, you should have risk capital (meaning it can go to ZERO without causing harm) of at least $20,000. Don't bid me back if you don't like that...and I did not ask your opinion. Half that money to get started should be in either SPY or in Berkshire Hathaway stock. This is your initial "basket". The remaining $10,000 you are free to trade. Be aware that many very talented very aggressive experienced people wake up in the morning with the express intent of separating you from that money. They are ruthless and the vast and overwhelming odds are that they will move some or all of your trading capital in to their account...a couple times, before you figure things out.

If you plan to trade for income...meaning that you are going to withdraw money from your "trading account" to pay living expenses please re-read the metaphor above. Traders do not make a habit of periodic planned withdrawals from their "trading" account. If you think that trading futures is the Golden Key to easy prolonged riches, leave Colorado, give your gummies to your "bro from the gym" and get a degree in engineering, law or medicine and become the founding owner of the maker of the next great thing everyone needs."

damn... $250.000? why?

i just need a good profit factor, control the drawdown and the consec. losers... that's it

as a minimum to start trading /ES? Yeah, that is kind of subjective. I simply gave my opinion. Or are you asking about the other thread and hit to net liq?

Fernand0 

damn... $250.000? why? i just need a good profit factor, control the drawdown and the consec. losers... that's it

and say, yes, that and a crown and you can be king. But you are correct. a good factor, low/no drawdown and few consecutive losers and anyone would be all set.

IMO, one can scalp the eminis with a $2000 account with some brokers that have $500 margins per contract.

However, based on how you've asked your question... You most likely don't have a futures broker account... Nor do you understand that to successfully scalp the eminis your going to need to have commission rates so cheap... Such is not available to someone with a $2000 trading account.

That's just for starters. Successful scalpers of the eminis also have excellent/reliable data feeds, broker platform suitable for scalping and other trader equipment suitable for scalping. Then there's the psychological aspect... Those successful scalpers are extremely discipline traders and experience traders...Not trading with a $2000 account.

with their first post. I guess wldman has to step out now. The answer to the earlier question about the "tell" should be obvious. 36 people wonder if they have or can get enough $ to be considered viable by people at NexusFi and 3 or 4 want to discuss daily pre session analysis of the most active most competitive market in the world.

picklerick 

IMO, one can scalp the eminis with a $2000 account with some brokers that have $500 margins per contract. However, based on how you've asked your question... You most likely don't have a futures broker account... Nor do you understand that to successfully scalp the eminis your going to need to have commission rates so cheap... Such is not available to someone with a $2000 trading account. That's just for starters. Successful scalpers of the eminis also have excellent/reliable data feeds, broker platform suitable for scalping and other trader equipment suitable for scalping. Then there's the psychological aspect... Those successful scalpers are extremely discipline traders and experience traders...Not trading with a $2000 account.

picklerick 

IMO, one can scalp the eminis with a $2000 account with some brokers that have $500 margins per contract. However, based on how you've asked your question... You most likely don't have a futures broker account... Nor do you understand that to successfully scalp the eminis your going to need to have commission rates so cheap... Such is not available to someone with a $2000 trading account. That's just for starters. Successful scalpers of the eminis also have excellent/reliable data feeds, broker platform suitable for scalping and other trader equipment suitable for scalping. Then there's the psychological aspect... Those successful scalpers are extremely discipline traders and experience traders...Not trading with a $2000 account.

Probably not going to be an answer that most agree with, but here it goes. I believe if you are a successful trader you can trade a $5k account just as easily as a $50k account. The most important aspect to trading for me is having a strategy that you can successfully follow. By that I mean controlling your stop losses, margins, entries, profit targets and having confidence in your strategy!! Be honest with yourself before you ever start that there is no doubts you will be successful. That in my honest opinion comes from watching your strategy for however long it takes, whether it be a week, month or a year before you have that confidence.