NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





Time to Give Up


Discussion in Psychology and Money Management

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one Big Mike with 30 posts (483 thanks)
    2. looks_two HoopyTrading with 18 posts (4 thanks)
    3. looks_3 kronie with 17 posts (22 thanks)
    4. looks_4 Rory with 17 posts (33 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one FXwulf with 28.4 thanks per post
    2. looks_two wldman with 23.8 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 Massive l with 18 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 Big Mike with 16.1 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 216,311 views
    2. thumb_up 2,595 thanks given
    3. group 246 followers
    1. forum 591 posts
    2. attach_file 12 attachments




 
Search this Thread
  #41 (permalink)
 addchild 
Bay Area California
 
Experience: None
Platform: TT T4
Broker: Phillip Capital
Trading: Futures
Posts: 809 since Nov 2011
Thanks Given: 926
Thanks Received: 898


Xav1029 View Post
This paragraph touched on something that has caused a lot of doubt in my trading journey, so I'll put it out there to get some feedback. Even though I have never had any gambling issues, I am an addict to the core. I am very proud to say I have been sober close to 7 years now and my life has done a complete 180, however sometimes when I get excited in a trade (winning or losing trade) the switch will go off an I will make some inexplicable decisions that remind me of the state of mind I would go into when I was still active. I am naturally undisciplined, selfish, egotistical and have a high threshold for "pain". I have been able to change all of these in my daily life, but when it comes to trading, all these traits still come up with full force.

So, would this put me in the "Time to Give Up" category?

I don't think so, you seem to have a strong understanding of your shortcomings, and with a good understanding comes a very good chance of being able to either overcome or circumvent the problem. Maybe you would be better suited for automated trading?

.
Reply With Quote

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
Better Renko Gaps
The Elite Circle
How to create dashboard like this one?
Platforms and Indicators
MC PL editor upgrade
MultiCharts
Help re translation of ninjascript to EL
NinjaTrader
MC Advanced Simulated Trading.
MultiCharts
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on NexusFi
ApexTraderFunding.com experience and review
136 thanks
1 Minute Man
65 thanks
In futures why does price turn so hard against you
42 thanks
HumbleTraders next chapter
29 thanks
GFIs1 1 DAX trade per day journal
24 thanks
  #42 (permalink)
 Brewer20 
Denver, CO
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: T4/TOS
Trading: ES
Posts: 110 since Jun 2012
Thanks Given: 71
Thanks Received: 93


Big Mike View Post
So the point of this thread is not to talk about really any of that but instead to talk about when it is time to give up, or simply to move on.

In fact, a lot of times my advice to these guys is to move on. Stop trading. Let's be real, if you are undercapitalized, unwilling to do the real work, and have no support from your family -- you aren't in a position to be a good trader.

But I also have to be honest, some times when I tell someone to stop trading, what I am really wanting them to do is come back and tell me NO, they will not stop, they are going to make it work. I mean if you really want this, then fight for it. But as I've said countless times before -- willpower alone is not enough to make you profitable.

Mike

Mike, fantastic topic for discussion. You bring up many good points for thought. I can only add that one must have an absolute passion for trading to have a chance. Once a trader realizes it is going to take actually work, and this isn't simply taking candy from a baby, they better be willing to put in a ton of work and persevere.

I think most go about it wrong but risking they're own capital while they are learning. I know I did. Traders need to be truly profitable on SIM, without cheating, bending the rules, and allowing for slippage. This is before they even think about trading a live account.

In fact, I would recommend new traders, struggling traders, and underfunded traders to go with a partner such as Topstep Trader. They will enforce discipline, and provide the capital to prove yourself. Given that option, not having capital is not a reason to quite trading, or to not even get started.

When should a trader quit. IMHO, only a trader can answer that. But given the what it takes to make it as a trader, I'm temped to say that if someone would quit, they wouldn't have made it anyway.

Here's a link that outlines the development of a trader. Since I'm not yet at the end, I can't say if it is entirely accurate, but it seems pretty good to me.

38 Steps to Becoming a Successful Trader

Plan your trade, trade your plan.
Reply With Quote
  #43 (permalink)
 jimjones26 
Tulsa OK
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader/Jigsaw Tools
Broker: Deep Discount Trading/TT
Trading: ZN, ZB
Posts: 162 since Jul 2009
Thanks Given: 138
Thanks Received: 207



Brewer20 View Post
When should a trader quit. IMHO, only a trader can answer that. But given the what it takes to make it as a trader, I'm temped to say that if someone would quit, they wouldn't have made it anyway.

My thoughts also.

20,000,000
Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #44 (permalink)
 
liquidcci's Avatar
 liquidcci 
Austin, TX
 
Experience: Master
Platform: ninjatrader, r-trader
Trading: NQ, CL
Posts: 866 since Jun 2011
Thanks Given: 610
Thanks Received: 1,091

Great Discussion. I think many people come into trading assuming anyone can do it and it is a path to easy money. For us who have been down the path we know it is one of the hardest things to succeed at doing.

I think there is a time where a person has to get honest and determine of trading or any profession for that matter fits. Trading is not for everyone just like being an MD is not for everyone. Personally I love to trade which is what enabled me to go through the rigorous process of self reflection, devastation, exhilaration that accompanies the learning curve. You can acquire through time trading knowledge that can help you make money but if you don't wake up everyday and look forward to trading then find something you do.

"The day I became a winning trader was the day it became boring. Daily losses no longer bother me and daily wins no longer excited me. Took years of pain and busting a few accounts before finally got my mind right. I survived the darkness within and now just chillax and let my black box do the work."
Reply With Quote
  #45 (permalink)
 
72truckster's Avatar
 72truckster 
SK, Canada
 
Experience: None
Platform: Ninja Trader
Trading: Futures
Posts: 40 since Dec 2011
Thanks Given: 184
Thanks Received: 31

The replies so far, remind me of the time I tried to teach my sister to change the oil on her car.

Within a very short period of time I came to the conclusion that she should probably never change the oil on any car.

It was a very definitive, clear, logical decision on my part. She did not possess the necessary skills and learning them would be highly unlikely.

I told her just take your car to a place and pay them to do it for you.

Reply With Quote
  #46 (permalink)
 
vvhg's Avatar
 vvhg 
Northern Germany
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT
Trading: FDAX, CL
Posts: 1,583 since Mar 2011
Thanks Given: 1,016
Thanks Received: 2,824


Xav1029 View Post
This paragraph touched on something that has caused a lot of doubt in my trading journey, so I'll put it out there to get some feedback. Even though I have never had any gambling issues, I am an addict to the core. I am very proud to say I have been sober close to 7 years now and my life has done a complete 180, however sometimes when I get excited in a trade (winning or losing trade) the switch will go off an I will make some inexplicable decisions that remind me of the state of mind I would go into when I was still active. I am naturally undisciplined, selfish, egotistical and have a high threshold for "pain". I have been able to change all of these in my daily life, but when it comes to trading, all these traits still come up with full force.

So, would this put me in the "Time to Give Up" category?

Well, as @Brewer20 said, I think only the trader (you) can answer that question.
But I can't say "yes" due to your obviously high and trained level of self reflection. Although having a disposition to addiction, or however to put it, might be a disadvantage, being able to overcome such an addiction might just as well count as an advantage, partially or fully offsetting the other...or maybe even outweighing it, again only you can answer that.
And by the way, my hat goes off to you!
What I rather meant with my original comment was specificly a person with a disposition for gambling, active addiction or not.

It is said that war brings out the worst in a person, I think trading does too, although in a vastly different way.

Vvhg

P.S. I don't think that selfishness and egoism are as such undesirable in respect to becoming a successful trader
When it comes to trading I am pretty selfish too.

Vvhg

Hic Rhodos, hic salta.
Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #47 (permalink)
karoshiman
Munich, Germany
 
Posts: 285 since Apr 2012
Thanks Given: 121
Thanks Received: 117


Brewer20 View Post

...

But given the what it takes to make it as a trader, I'm temped to say that if someone would quit, they wouldn't have made it anyway.

...


I don't understand the logic here... Isn't that exactly the reason, why traders who should quit because they do not have a chance to succeed, keep on trying endlessly? Their (unconscious) logic being: "If I quit, I admit that I could not make it in this game, I'm a failure, etc. Hence, I continue."

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #48 (permalink)
 Brewer20 
Denver, CO
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: T4/TOS
Trading: ES
Posts: 110 since Jun 2012
Thanks Given: 71
Thanks Received: 93


karoshiman View Post
I don't understand the logic here... Isn't that exactly the reason, why traders who should quit because they do not have a chance to succeed, keep on trying endlessly? Their (unconscious) logic being: "If I quit, I admit that I could not make it in this game, I'm a failure, etc. Hence, I continue."

I'm not at all saying the opposite of my statement is true. I don't believe that if someone never quits, then they will eventually be successful.

Plan your trade, trade your plan.
Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #49 (permalink)
 jimjones26 
Tulsa OK
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: NinjaTrader/Jigsaw Tools
Broker: Deep Discount Trading/TT
Trading: ZN, ZB
Posts: 162 since Jul 2009
Thanks Given: 138
Thanks Received: 207


Brewer20 View Post
I'm not at all saying the opposite of my statement is true. I don't believe that if someone never quits, then they will eventually be successful.

You guarantee failure once you quit.

20,000,000
Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #50 (permalink)
 
Anagami's Avatar
 Anagami 
Bangkok, Thailand
Legendary Hedge Fund Trader
 
Experience: Master
Trading: ES
Posts: 978 since Dec 2010
Thanks Given: 707
Thanks Received: 2,301


I hate to say it, but...


You are never in the wrong place... but sometimes you are in the right place looking at things in the wrong way.
Reply With Quote




Last Updated on September 13, 2023


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts