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Can I use a Ninja demo account to trade with a live web-based account?


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  #11 (permalink)
 strikebackfast 
Singapore
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Ninjatrader
Broker: DDT / Kinetick
Trading: 6E
Posts: 62 since Jun 2013
Thanks Given: 76
Thanks Received: 85

To answer your main question on the thread:

If you are indeed trading ES futures on the CME, it doesn't matter what the online platform feed is saying. It all boils down to the current bid/ask price is on the CME.

But execution lag would matter. I do not have experience with your broker or your data feed to your Ninjatrader to comment further.

As a further comment:

I largely agree with what the majority of the others are saying. $2000 is too small an account to day trade the ES (risk of ruin is too high.) 20 trade loss will not happen off the bat, but when you account is down to $1000 or so (which is a high probability event), you WILL go on tilt and end up losing the rest in lightspeed fashion (speaking from personal experience )

And of course, all the other pitfalls for trading a small account in what is perhaps the most competitive and aggressive instrument there is on the market.

Regardless, you might be a market wizard in the making and I wish you all the best. At least when you fail, you know where to go to for advice. Just re-read these posts again!

Good luck!

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  #12 (permalink)
 
DarkPoolTrading's Avatar
 DarkPoolTrading   is a Vendor
 
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Since we're going off topic, ill keep it brief and wish you the best of luck.


budfox View Post
but tell me what makes you think the instruments you mentioned are so much safer? and I see you trade currencies, what makes currencies so much safer than ES?

The instruments I mentioned are not safer. They have lower dollar per tick values meaning you will lose less and extend the time you have available to learn. Your focus shouldn't be on how much you can make, it should be on how much you can lose.


budfox View Post
PLease describe what all is included in this learning curve.

I can't profess to be any kind of master trader (far from it) and am by no means through the learning curve so ill just speak from personal experience. Learning to trade has not only taken much longer than I expected but it has also been far more challenging than I could have ever initially imagined. Also, the learning never ends. Arguably the real learning only starts with your first live account,..which is why you want to make it last.


budfox View Post
How long have you been trading on the JSE for? (Do a lot of people in south africa trade the ES?)

I have no idea how many people trade the ES in South Africa. I swing traded stocks on the JSE for roughly 3 years. I then spent a year learning to trade intraday while working and continuing to swing trade. Since the beginning of this year I began trading full time and can certainly say, that is when I realized how much I didn't know.


budfox View Post
why would I blow my account so quickly?

Because your risk of ruin is very high with such a small account trading such a relatively expensive instrument.

If you haven't already watched this, it may be well worth your time: https://nexusfi.com/webinars/jan14_2012/where_to_start_part_1/

Good luck.

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  #13 (permalink)
 
lifeguardsteve88's Avatar
 lifeguardsteve88 
Pompano Beach, Florida, USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: S5 Trader, Ninja Trader
Broker: Stage5/ IQfeed
Trading: M6E, M6A, 6E, 6A, ES
Posts: 159 since Jun 2013
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budfox View Post
How long you been trading the ES for? and what is your success rate?


My account balance is about 10 times yours, and I won't trade the ES because it's still still too small (risk wise) to trade that instrument while learning to trade live. Once I've proven myself consistently profitable trading the M6E live, I will test the waters of the ES.

And depending on your brokerages ES margin requirements, one or two stops with your one point stop could easily put your balance under the minimum mandatory needed to trade even a single ES contract, and thus you would be shut down from trading in a couple of trades.....not the 20 trades needed to blow out your account.

Cheers!

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  #14 (permalink)
 
Melba swing's Avatar
 Melba swing 
Melbourne Victoria/Australia
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: C-trader, MT4
Broker: Pepperstone
Trading: Forex, Indices
Posts: 68 since May 2013
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Quoting 
Once I've proven myself consistently profitable trading the M6E live, I will test the waters of the ES.


Agree with that 100%. The market loves to train the uninitiated

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  #15 (permalink)
 budfox 
Toronto
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra
Broker: MB
Trading: ES
Posts: 313 since Jun 2013


lifeguardsteve88 View Post
My account balance is about 10 times yours, and I won't trade the ES because it's still still too small (risk wise) to trade that instrument while learning to trade live. Once I've proven myself consistently profitable trading the M6E live, I will test the waters of the ES.

Ok I will consider the M6E.

How long have you been trading it ?

How does it move on an intraday basis ?

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  #16 (permalink)
 budfox 
Toronto
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra
Broker: MB
Trading: ES
Posts: 313 since Jun 2013


strikebackfast View Post
you WILL go on tilt and end up losing the rest in lightspeed fashion (speaking from personal experience )

And of course, all the other pitfalls for trading a small account in what is perhaps the most competitive and aggressive instrument there is on the market.



Good luck!

What you mean go on tilt? explain.

Everyone is telling me not to trade this... maybe I really should start on the M6E

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  #17 (permalink)
 budfox 
Toronto
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: Sierra
Broker: MB
Trading: ES
Posts: 313 since Jun 2013


DarkPoolTrading View Post
Since we're going off topic, ill keep it brief and wish you the best of luck.



The instruments I mentioned are not safer. They have lower dollar per tick values meaning you will lose less and extend the time you have available to learn. Your focus shouldn't be on how much you can make, it should be on how much you can lose.



I can't profess to be any kind of master trader (far from it) and am by no means through the learning curve so ill just speak from personal experience. Learning to trade has not only taken much longer than I expected but it has also been far more challenging than I could have ever initially imagined. Also, the learning never ends. Arguably the real learning only starts with your first live account,..which is why you want to make it last.


I have no idea how many people trade the ES in South Africa. I swing traded stocks on the JSE for roughly 3 years. I then spent a year learning to trade intraday while working and continuing to swing trade. Since the beginning of this year I began trading full time and can certainly say, that is when I realized how much I didn't know.



Because your risk of ruin is very high with such a small account trading such a relatively expensive instrument.

If you haven't already watched this, it may be well worth your time: https://nexusfi.com/webinars/jan14_2012/where_to_start_part_1/

Good luck.

OK what made you decide to trade currencies?

how does that contrast to ES?

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  #18 (permalink)
 traderwerks   is a Vendor
 
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budfox View Post
What you mean go on tilt? explain.


Tilt (poker) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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  #19 (permalink)
 
lifeguardsteve88's Avatar
 lifeguardsteve88 
Pompano Beach, Florida, USA
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: S5 Trader, Ninja Trader
Broker: Stage5/ IQfeed
Trading: M6E, M6A, 6E, 6A, ES
Posts: 159 since Jun 2013
Thanks Given: 272
Thanks Received: 116


budfox View Post
Ok I will consider the M6E.

How long have you been trading it ?

How does it move on an intraday basis ?



Please have a look at this video (link posted below) from FT71 that will explain the reasons for using M6E for beginners with small accounts. One great thing about futures.io (formerly BMT) and the advise from all the advanced traders is that you can save yourself from doing the financially harmful rookie mistakes that most make in the beginning IF YOU FOLLOW their advise.

Cheers!

June 12th Webinar @ [AUTOLINK]CME[/AUTOLINK] Group: Exploring FX Futures Using [AUTOLINK]CME[/AUTOLINK] E-[AUTOLINK]Micros[/AUTOLINK] - Trading Live | FuturesTrader71

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  #20 (permalink)
 timefreedom 
Indianapolis, IN USA
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninjatrader TOS Custom
Broker: Several
Trading: ES CL ZB
Posts: 374 since Dec 2009
Thanks Given: 226
Thanks Received: 381


@budfox,
It's your money. You will be the one taking the trades. You will be the one banking the profits. You will be the one responsible for the losses. So make sure that YOU are the one that decides / commits to what you are going to do. Asking for other peoples opinion on a public forum is flawed because you have no idea who is answering you and what their motivations are. What absolutely does not work is looking for others to answer the difficult questions for you. Pay someone a few thousand and they will make you a trader? Nope. You dig it out of the dirt. And there is good information on futures.io (formerly BMT) - but there is horrible information on futures.io (formerly BMT) as well. Again, it's up to you to dig it out of the dirt. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it with $2k. But don't rely on anyone to show you how to do it either. In trading, it's all you. Accept it, and start digging.

Yes, you can use Ninja demo to trade a live web-based account and... No, I would not recommend it.

Good luck.

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Last Updated on July 16, 2013


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