paps 

hi there @Meklon glad you found some value. But let me tell you there is never a guarantee. And its continuous learning. Even today I constantly try and explore as things are always changing. But the Rule of Supply/Demand & what happens before & after these levels can be known if one can read Supply/Demand as shown by Wkyckof. Likewise what Livermoore saw on ticker tape can be easily seen by platforms such as Tradestation with tweaks. Wyckoff was shown to me by one of my mentors & i since he never shared his charts publicly...and hence I will also not. My charts actually print out what is happening at the market ...though i still use bookmap & jigsaw. I use jigsaw & bookmap to see area of Hidden Orders or when markets are flushed/blown thru. But Limit Order are printed on my candles. However attaching a screenshot of how i use Jigsaw. Am just very used to it. Attachment 222635 But i also look at various things such as how Orders arrive at exchanges which gives me a certain edge. Nothing is a guarantee in trading & hence this is something i have experienced & come to learn of certain order conditions as they happen in the markets. I do something similar for Heavy weight stocks & funds which will influence the market. Attachment 222636 But again I do not look at this in isolation. This is typically used in conjunction with Cumulative Delta which I find powerful & use of Liquidity (google term VPIN which will show what some school of thought thinks what caused flash crash...but this happens regularly). I use liquidity with certain Spikes which happen in the markets. i did have an old journal which i stopped updating...some of this may have been shown there. bottom line for me....identify Key Supply/Demand...what happens there before & after. What happens when Informed Traders enter/exit the markets & can their footprints bee seen. cheers

Hi Paps,

Many thanks for all your time answering. I realize it took some time to create this post and combine all the examples you have given. Ton of information here. Thank you!

"...let me tell you there is never a guarantee. And its continuous learning. Even today I constantly try and explore as things are always changing...." - I sign under each word in that statement!

I see that you are also watching Time & Sales. Never gave too much of importance to this until recently when started seriously analyzing Order flow.

I also happen to like Jigsaw DOM very much, but unfortunately their full suite of tools runs on Ninja only and I am using Sierra. I was a TradeStation fanatic for almost 12 years up until few months ago when I finally realized that they simply no longer serving my needs for special tools and things I want to do and see while trading. They are good entry level platform and nice automation / back testing tool, but severely lack the flexibility to provide serious instruments for Order Flow analysis. Not to mention a very ugly customer service as of late. I have switched to Sierra and never looked back.

Fully understand that you may feel reluctant to share some charts shown by your mentor. The Laws of Wyckoff are fairly remote concept to me, I have not heard of them before so this is something I will need to take a look at. Jesse Livermoore was a great trader and "Reminiscences of a s Stock Operator" is one of my favorite books. Wonder how he would implement his knowledge these days, when everything has gone electronic.......

Kudos!

Mek.

Brutus 

Hi you should also take a look at this thread, some good info posted by Camdo EdsLevel2Dom Discussion Thread This thread is to discuss the possible ways that EdsLevel2Dom may be used for trading, and for a place where different beta versions may be posted. EdsLevel2Dom is a histogram DOM placed as an indicator on a price chart. It gives the viewer an immediate …

Thank you Brutus,

a lot of good info on that thread.

Regards,

Mek.

Meklon 

Hi Paps, I was a TradeStation fanatic for almost 12 years up until few months ago when I finally realized that they simply no longer serving my needs for special tools and things I want to do and see while trading. They are good entry level platform and nice automation / back testing tool, but severely lack the flexibility to provide serious instruments for Order Flow analysis. Not to mention a very ugly customer service as of late. I have switched to Sierra and never looked back. Mek.

Hi there....have known of some very amazing traders who use Tradestation. Yes they lack certain stuff in Bid/Ask for the Order Flow we see on Ninja. Nevertheless is very powerful in other sorts of Order Flow. One can track entire markets and also use their radar which is one of the most powerful stuff. I think personally it's perhaps a very sophisticated platform which was used by very early adopters in trading.

I do use both the platforms.

cheers and best

paps 

Hi there....have known of some very amazing traders who use Tradestation. Yes they lack certain stuff in Bid/Ask for the Order Flow we see on Ninja. Nevertheless is very powerful in other sorts of Order Flow. One can track entire markets and also use their radar which is one of the most powerful stuff. I think personally it's perhaps a very sophisticated platform which was used by very early adopters in trading. I do use both the platforms. cheers and best

Hi Paps,

I do agree that TS Radar Screen is a very nicely designed feature and I do like it a lot. I would also concur that there are very amazing traders that have used Trade Station. Heck...I myself swore that I will never look at any other platform for almost 12 years! Go figure. My main issue with TS these days is the following:

1. While the graphic charts and some other tools like Radar Screen are pretty amazing, some other features like Matrix are severely lack the real DOM functionality and very difficult to integrate into convenient trading setup.

2. TS has its own data stream and the way they calculate Tick value is different from other data feed providers. It makes it very difficult (if not next to impossible) to calculate all features of the real Foot Print and Delta. Yes, TS data is quite clean (not without its quirks) and goes all the way back to 80's for some instruments, but if one would want to use full extend of the Order Flow or Market Profile tools on TS they are out of luck. TS also has a huge problem with the way they draw objects on their charts and any tool that is developed in Easy Language or C++ to creates multiple object will hit the limitation of 500 objects per chart after which the platform starting to act weird, hang and generate errors, eventually crashing. Put multiple open workspaces on top of that and it makes it virtually impossible to trade in a fast moving market because it's VERY heavy on computer resources. The only person I have known that managed to partially overcome these issues is Chris Cheatham who has created an amazing product for TS called Insider Bars. This package is available in their subscription App store. Chris also provides a very nice dedicated support to his product and he is a VERY talented developer, he has more than 500 subscribers. His Time & Sales packages is also light years ahead from the standard one offered by TS.

3. Third and main issue I have with TS is their customer service. I have eventually had it enough and this was a breaking point when I was forced to move multiple accounts with significant dollar value out because of the way they have treated significant customers. After all years of being a client and tons of commissions I have generated for them this was not acceptable.

Best,

Mek.

Meklon 

Hi Paps, I do agree that TS Radar Screen is a very nicely designed feature and I do like it a lot. I would also concur that there are very amazing traders that have used Trade Station. Heck...I myself swore that I will never look at any other platform for almost 12 years! Go figure. My main issue with TS these days is the following: 1. While the graphic charts and some other tools like Radar Screen are pretty amazing, some other features like Matrix are severely lack the real DOM functionality and very difficult to integrate into convenient trading setup. 2. TS has its own data stream and the way they calculate Tick value is different from other data feed providers. It makes it very difficult (if not next to impossible) to calculate all features of the real Foot Print and Delta. Yes, TS data is quite clean (not without its quirks) and goes all the way back to 80's for some instruments, but if one would want to use full extend of the Order Flow or Market Profile tools on TS they are out of luck. TS also has a huge problem with the way they draw objects on their charts and any tool that is developed in Easy Language or C++ to creates multiple object will hit the limitation of 500 objects per chart after which the platform starting to act weird, hang and generate errors, eventually crashing. Put multiple open workspaces on top of that and it makes it virtually impossible to trade in a fast moving market because it's VERY heavy on computer resources. The only person I have known that managed to partially overcome these issues is Chris Cheatham who has created an amazing product for TS called Insider Bars. This package is available in their subscription App store. Chris also provides a very nice dedicated support to his product and he is a VERY talented developer, he has more than 500 subscribers. His Time & Sales packages is also light years ahead from the standard one offered by TS. 3. Third and main issue I have with TS is their customer service. I have eventually had it enough and this was a breaking point when I was forced to move multiple accounts with significant dollar value out because of the way they have treated significant customers. After all years of being a client and tons of commissions I have generated for them this was not acceptable. Best, Mek.

hi looks like you have had your fair share with TS ")

When possible i straight away reach TS their highest support level since they are the one's who have developed the product or are conversant with it.
2ndly I always have a pair of TS developers who are either very conversant with TS or their upcoming product lines for any custom development.

Yes I had exchanges with Chris on his Solidus pro or some product. Since it was only being offered as subscription i could not take that up. I was open for a locked ELD but that did not happen.

cheers and best

You can find the knowledge by commiting to hours of reading forums, posts, threads, searching google, observing the market with footprint like the majority of people who use it have done.

Basic price and volume congruency along with Wyckoff and Livermore as mentioned.

xplorer 

hi there @Meklon John Grady's NoBSTrading website.

wow thats still going!

Remember reading his great explanation of various different types of spoofing.....a lot clicked then, and can still see it in the algos today.

DaxyMcDaxFace 

wow thats still going! Remember reading his great explanation of various different types of spoofing.....a lot clicked then, and can still see it in the algos today.

Hi Daxy, yes I have looked through his material. Indeed very informative. I am seriously evaluating Book Map product, seems like they have created a great tool that helps to understand what is happening in real time in addition to volume that already traded.

Mek.

Meklon 

Hi Daxy, yes I have looked through his material. Indeed very informative. I am seriously evaluating Book Map product, seems like they have created a great tool that helps to understand what is happening in real time in addition to volume that already traded. Mek.

so this spoofing does live on.......crazy.

i thought algos wld have randomised various spoofing methods.

the basic idea is to look for a volume cluster to form at a key reverence point. you can see that in the foot print. when price moves away from that cluster in the wright direction a order flow reversal is under way . then trade the pull back into the high volume node. stop a few ticks under it. but you have no idea if there still unfilled order there unless you can read the limit order book. it is unfilled orders that move price not filed ones. foot prints do not help with that.