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my thoughts about youtube videos & trainers, plus my technical chart advice


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  #11 (permalink)
 ZB23 
Atlanta Metro Area
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Rithmic API
Broker: Ironbeam
Trading: Futures: CL spreads, IR outright.
Frequency: Never
Duration: Never
Posts: 146 since Feb 2017
Thanks Given: 60
Thanks Received: 199


thoughtful View Post
I was just browsing on youtube a little recently. OMG there's SO MANY people trying to sell their training. OMG they charge alot too -- like $200 a month or $1000 lifetime subscription, etc. I looked at some of their videos explaining how to trade. OMG BARF! Or they don't even show you what they really do LOL. Hey, maybe some are good, IDK, it just seems funny to me.

My interest in trading started in 2003, before advent of YouTube. Back then, newbies went to the Internet to get information. I remember buying courses and receiving CDs through the mail. Peter Bain's and John Murphy's courses come to mind. From 2003 to 2016, my interest dithered as I wasn't looking to trade full-time and investing in penny stocks was my solid second stream of income.

In 2016, I started taking trading more seriously. Since I was interested in trading interest rate futures, I started searching YouTube. I came across two people offering that specific education. One was legit, the other was questionable. Luckily, I chose the legit offering.

Now, on to my point.

1. When it comes to seeking trading education, a YouTube search helps for those with a clue.

2. One has to use a filter to sift through the BS. The filter is comprised of the following:
  • Does the trader have professional trading experience (i.e., he/she worked at a prop firm, investment bank, in the pits, etc)? If the trader doesn't have professional trading experience, does he/she have an extensive public archive of live streams of his trades?
  • Is the trader actually trading?
  • Is the company that is offering education a subsidiary of a trading firm?

If any of the above is No, then it's a quick pass.

3. Those who can do, those who can't grift.

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  #12 (permalink)
goodoboy
Houston
 
Posts: 389 since Dec 2016
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thoughtful View Post
IDK why anyone would use heiken-ashi bars, IMHO I can't see what the point of them is. The purpose of renko is just to eliminate alot of the bars in between the swings, so you can fit more data on the screen, and just to make it easier to look at I guess. Point & figure is the same as renko but it doesn't show any bars in between the swings.

Range bars are the same thing as renko, except that they show the overlapping bars. However most software doesn't calculate renko exactly the same as range bars (like it should), so range bars are the #1 defacto standard. Plus sometimes the overlapping bars of range charts makes a 2-bar swing, when renko only makes a 1-bar swing, and since usually everyone wants to filter out the tiny 1-bar swings, then with renko you would miss that 2-bar swing.

About time charts, if the market moves fast then a bar may be large, so if an algo is waiting for each bar to finish before doing anything, then it'll miss some fast moves. Whereas range bars are always the same size so you know your algo won't miss any fast moves. Yet lots of people still use time charts. I guess they like losing money LOL.

Hello thoughtful,

LOL your post is very funny thanks for the laugh.

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  #13 (permalink)
 
Small Dog's Avatar
 Small Dog 
Sydney NSW Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, Oanda
Trading: Forex, index futures
Frequency: Daily
Duration: Days
Posts: 172 since Jun 2020
Thanks Given: 15
Thanks Received: 163



TWDsje View Post
Renko bars are particularly problematic because they rewrite bars. Heikin-Ashi bars are the worst as they basically change the open/close price of the bar which screws up the prices the simulator takes. Any non time based bar will be problematic though.

The bar type determines when your strategy is calculated. So if you're using price or volume to determine that calculation point you're introducing a certain bias into the strategy. It tends to select for bars that only represent a few milliseconds of time. Places where you'd never get the price you want. In other words, it selects trades where the sim is less likely to be accurate to live trading. Something that you'll almost immediately notice when you run the strategy live as kevindog points out.

I am wondering if there is a way around testing renko bars. For example, I could code an indicator, and if "close > previous renko high" then go long etc. I wonder if anybody tried it.

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  #14 (permalink)
 
Small Dog's Avatar
 Small Dog 
Sydney NSW Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, Oanda
Trading: Forex, index futures
Frequency: Daily
Duration: Days
Posts: 172 since Jun 2020
Thanks Given: 15
Thanks Received: 163

On the topic of this thread. There are literally thousands of systems available for free that consistently make money. We can argue about Heikin Ashi or Renko, but at the end of the day there are two ways top trade, trend or mean reversion, and there are many, many varieties of the poison for any taste, so to speak. So then why the adage of two traders with the same system is holding up for a long time? One guy will be profitable, another losing using the same set of rules. Setting aside the fact that at least half of the Tube gurus' material is garbage and very few of these mentors will show you their trading account, the key to successful trading is mental, not technical, and the only person who can figure it out is the trader himself. Who knows what triggers my anxiety, recklessness, greed, fear? Why do I exit winning trades too early? Why do I move away my stops when the price gets closer? Why do I go nuts with the size on some days? Why am I afraid of losing and why is winning so important to me? These are the questions (and many more, when the can of worms opens up) every trader has to find the answer to in order to become successful.

Ninety nine percent of trading videos are about the technical. Will the video about the best use of RSI or Bollinger Bands prevent me from being reckless and going nuts with the size on the day when I feel invincible? I doubt it. I can learn all that and will still fuck it up, never mind if it's price action, indicators, Heikin Ashi, Ichimoku or astrology.

And then there is a very large elephant in the room: why on earth would you sell a trading system if you can make shitload of money with it yourself? I am not buying all this crap about "helping other traders who are struggling". You want to help - do it for free. Like Tom Hougaard, for example. Most large brokers conduct regular seminars on every possible aspect of trading - for free, because it is in their interest to have clients that make money. If it's not free then your main purpose is to make money, because you can't make this money in the market. I guess everyone is free to sell whatever they want and to charge whatever they want, but at the end of the day it all comes to a simple honesty: doing another course on technical analysis or algo coding is unlikely to get you out of the seventy plus percent that lose money in the market.

I am getting close to the end of the bitching session. There is no way around it: anything worthwhile is hard and simple at the same time. In trading, technical part is easy, and virtually every possible system works from time to time. The hard part is mental, and that requires tremendous work. Youtubers cannot offer help in this area.

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  #15 (permalink)
goodoboy
Houston
 
Posts: 389 since Dec 2016
Thanks Given: 355
Thanks Received: 248


ursus View Post
On the topic of this thread. There are literally thousands of systems available for free that consistently make money. We can argue about Heikin Ashi or Renko, but at the end of the day there are two ways top trade, trend or mean reversion, and there are many, many varieties of the poison for any taste, so to speak. So then why the adage of two traders with the same system is holding up for a long time? One guy will be profitable, another losing using the same set of rules. Setting aside the fact that at least half of the Tube gurus' material is garbage and very few of these mentors will show you their trading account, the key to successful trading is mental, not technical, and the only person who can figure it out is the trader himself. Who knows what triggers my anxiety, recklessness, greed, fear? Why do I exit winning trades too early? Why do I move away my stops when the price gets closer? Why do I go nuts with the size on some days? Why am I afraid of losing and why is winning so important to me? These are the questions (and many more, when the can of worms opens up) every trader has to find the answer to in order to become successful.

Ninety nine percent of trading videos are about the technical. Will the video about the best use of RSI or Bollinger Bands prevent me from being reckless and going nuts with the size on the day when I feel invincible? I doubt it. I can learn all that and will still fuck it up, never mind if it's price action, indicators, Heikin Ashi, Ichimoku or astrology.

And then there is a very large elephant in the room: why on earth would you sell a trading system if you can make shitload of money with it yourself? I am not buying all this crap about "helping other traders who are struggling". You want to help - do it for free. Like Tom Hougaard, for example. Most large brokers conduct regular seminars on every possible aspect of trading - for free, because it is in their interest to have clients that make money. If it's not free then your main purpose is to make money, because you can't make this money in the market. I guess everyone is free to sell whatever they want and to charge whatever they want, but at the end of the day it all comes to a simple honesty: doing another course on technical analysis or algo coding is unlikely to get you out of the seventy plus percent that lose money in the market.

I am getting close to the end of the bitching session. There is no way around it: anything worthwhile is hard and simple at the same time. In trading, technical part is easy, and virtually every possible system works from time to time. The hard part is mental, and that requires tremendous work. Youtubers cannot offer help in this area.

Hello ursus,

I agree with everything you said.

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  #16 (permalink)
goodoboy
Houston
 
Posts: 389 since Dec 2016
Thanks Given: 355
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kevinkdog View Post
YouTube is a cesspool of what I'd consider illegal and deceptive trading "ads." Here are some example of outrageous ones - that were not hard at all to find:




As far as time based bars, it is hard for most trading software to properly backtest anything but time based bars. I never trust backtests of "exotic" bar types, as the calculations in real time are almost always different than in history.

But your point is sound - you've got to spend your time looking for ways to trade successfully, and not just rely on poor methods.

Kevin

P.S. I just saw a TV show last night about your area, and people searching for WWII balloon bombs in the forests in your area. neat stuff!

Hello kevinkdog,

lol, this is true.

I agree with everything you wrote.

lol, I back tested exotic bars and thought I found a gold mine algo and ALL my trading dreams was complete with this one algo.

5 days later running the algo in SIM, my dreams ended.

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  #17 (permalink)
madeinnyc
Highland Park, TX
 
Posts: 36 since Jan 2020
Thanks Given: 17
Thanks Received: 20

Youtube, Reddit, Twitter, Instagram.....they're all reeling with scammers! Anyone see the fun post Guruleaks posted on Twitter? Well, here u go:


The type of scams these guys were doing is all too common. There's different variations of the scam currently happening all over....but most involve penny stocks. What blew me away was the amount of money they made collectively over a span of only two years! Mama mia!!

But going back to the posters original rant....yes, everyone seems to follow the same modes-operandi. They speak of levels and make outlandish predictions based solely on the circular rotation of the stars. LOL! !

There are exceptions to everything. There's a small handful of guys that actually do stream for the passion of what they do. I found this dude who only trades the NQ but also has a hand in AI as it related to algorithmic strategies: [yt]https://www.youtube.com/@thealgotrader212[/yt]

Then there's also John Carter and Scott Pulcini, both are polar opposites, but each has a unique nitch. The the only thing is they both have products they like to sell, which is fine if you find value in their products. But honestly, I prefer watching someone who doesn't sell product and is really into it for the passion of what they do. Plus, trading is a lonely sport and having a sense of community is important, at least to me.

I do think however, that as the market begins to unravel, you'll see more streamers being sued as their approach begins to fall apart!

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  #18 (permalink)
 
Small Dog's Avatar
 Small Dog 
Sydney NSW Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, Oanda
Trading: Forex, index futures
Frequency: Daily
Duration: Days
Posts: 172 since Jun 2020
Thanks Given: 15
Thanks Received: 163

I have been listening to the Trading Nut channel. Interesting, until I did some Internet search and realized that most of his guests are vendors rather than traders. I asked the host in the comments if he ever checks his guests' trading account, to which he replied that if he did he would do one episode every two years. I think lots of folks figured out a simple fact; people will pay a lot of money to learn... how to pay a lot of money. This is actually true for lots of businesses. Lots of courses are sold for making money in the real estate, setting up your import/export business, general motivation (Tony Robbins & Co), Amazon affiliate and so on and so forth.

I think the only way to make it in trading is to figure it out for yourself. Sure, a good company helps, but mostly for support. What you see in the charts will be different from what some guru says he sees. Youtube can be useful for ideas, but at the end of the day you are the one to figure out a strategy and risk management.

By the way, the beauty of Internet is that people share things, and I have been told that you can either download most courses for free or for a fraction of the vendor's price. Interesting.

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Last Updated on February 14, 2023


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