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TradeStation all-in commissions?!


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  #1 (permalink)
trend train
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
 
Posts: 36 since Dec 2021
Thanks Given: 5
Thanks Received: 14

hello TS traders

I'm puzzled by TS commissions structure they don't seem to be very transparent about it at least to new traders or compared to Ninjatrader all-in rates table on pdf!

I thought I'm only one but turned out that even BENZINGA wrote about it 2 years ago!!

"CONS:
Confusing pricing structure to leave new traders with a weak understanding of what they pay" https://www.benzinga.com/money/tradestation-vs-ninjatrader

I had short chat with online support staff about their commissions and he wrote $1.5 per contract, per side.. when asked him what does per side mean he said per open per close then through me a link (running away sign) 😅 then he is gone.

I opened their link I read it reread it and still confused it has nothing related to my enquiry.

so please if anyone figure out their final all-in commission tell me and also does per side mean per bar open-close or per position open-close? are there hidden fees I need to be aware of? are their entire futures have same rate $1.5 per contract/per side?

looking forward to hear an answer to this mysterious hidden commissions 😂

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  #2 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
Posts: 3,683 since Jul 2012
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trend train View Post
hello TS traders

I'm puzzled by TS commissions structure they don't seem to be very transparent about it at least to new traders or compared to Ninjatrader all-in rates table on pdf!

I thought I'm only one but turned out that even BENZINGA wrote about it 2 years ago!!

"CONS:
Confusing pricing structure to leave new traders with a weak understanding of what they pay" https://www.benzinga.com/money/author/munyicharles-ggmail-com

I had short chat with online support staff about their commissions and he wrote $1.5 per contract, per side.. when asked him what does per side mean he said per open per close then through me a link (running away sign) 😅 then he is gone.

I opened their link I read it reread it and still confused it has nothing related to my enquiry.

so please if anyone figure out their final all-in commission tell me and also doe per side mean per bar open-close or per position open-close? are there hidden fees I need to be aware of? are their entire futures have same rate $1.5 per contract/per side?

looking forward to hear an answer to this mysterious hidden commissions 😂

My Tradestation rep can give you the full scoop. I don't want to post his e-mail address, so just PM me.

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  #3 (permalink)
trend train
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
 
Posts: 36 since Dec 2021
Thanks Given: 5
Thanks Received: 14



kevinkdog View Post
My Tradestation rep can give you the full scoop. I don't want to post his e-mail address, so just PM me.

Hello Kevinkdog

thanks for your help, please check your message inbox.

looking forward to hear from you.

Many thanks

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  #4 (permalink)
SunTrader
Boca Raton, FL
 
Posts: 263 since Nov 2018
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Don't know why it is referred to per side (has been that way for decades) basically it means side is each half of a trade: long + long exit or short + buy to cover = 2 sides of a complete trade.

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  #5 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
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SunTrader View Post
Don't know why it is referred to per side (has been that way for decades) basically it means side is each half of a trade: long + long exit or short + buy to cover = 2 sides of a complete trade.

Probably because it sounds cheaper that way

You always will pay both sides though, even if hold to end of contract settlement (I think)...

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  #6 (permalink)
 
SMCJB's Avatar
 SMCJB 
Houston TX
Legendary Market Wizard
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TT Stellar & Tradestation
Broker: Primarily Advantage Futures
Trading: Primarily Energy but also a little Equities, Fixed Income, Metals, U308 and Crypto.
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SMCJB View Post
The cost to trade futures is made up of three major components.
  • Exchange Fees
  • NFA Fees
  • Broker / FCM / Software / Data Fees

In its simplest form Exchange Fees are the same for everybody. (In reality its more complex than this as there are exchange memberships and discount programs that can give you a discount but if your using a retail broker then this probably doesn't apply to you). So it doesn't matter which broker you use the exchange fee will be the same. (Note in some cases the exchange splits this between what they call an exchange fee and a clearing fee - doesn't really matter though, still just the same thing).

NFA Fees are 2c for non-members and 0c for members. So I have a NYMEX seat so If I'm trading Crude/CL I don't pay an NFA fee. I don't have a CME seat though so if trading S&P500/ES I do pay 2c.

Where the difference comes in is with the Broker / FCM / Software / Data Fees. Different brokers charge different things. Some software has a routing fee

The 'Broker / FCM / Software / Data Fees' allows brokers a lot of flexibility. Brokers like Tradestation (and Interactive Brokers) have different commissions structures depending upon on your needs. My primary broker Advantage Futures has a commission calculator on their website which gives an estimate of what they would charge based upon your volume. More volume = lower fees. So a lot of the non-exchange fee, non-NFA fee, part of trading costs is completely negotiable.


SunTrader View Post
Don't know why it is referred to per side (has been that way for decades) basically it means side is each half of a trade: long + long exit or short + buy to cover = 2 sides of a complete trade.

Because you don't have to 'trade' out of a position hence you don't always pay per side * 2.

Obvious examples I can think of quickly (there are probably more) include
  • If I buy 10 MES and sell 1 ES I can have them offset and pay no fees for the offset.#
  • If I buy ES I could let it go financial settlement and then I believe the exchange fee is 40c instead of $1.30
  • Exchange fees for some spreads are lower than outrights. So buy Jan, Sell Jan/Feb spread, Sell Feb does not equal 4*normal commissions.#

# Of course I'm not sure that brokers like Tradestation would let you do this.

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  #7 (permalink)
SunTrader
Boca Raton, FL
 
Posts: 263 since Nov 2018
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SMCJB View Post
The 'Broker / FCM / Software / Data Fees' allows brokers a lot of flexibility. Brokers like Tradestation (and Interactive Brokers) have different commissions structures depending upon on your needs. My primary broker Advantage Futures has a commission calculator on their website which gives an estimate of what they would charge based upon your volume. More volume = lower fees. So a lot of the non-exchange fee, non-NFA fee, part of trading costs is completely negotiable.

Because you don't have to 'trade' out of a position hence you don't always pay per side * 2.

Obvious examples I can think of quickly (there are probably more) include
  • If I buy 10 MES and sell 1 ES I can have them offset and pay no fees for the offset.#
  • If I buy ES I could let it go financial settlement and then I believe the exchange fee is 40c instead of $1.30
  • Exchange fees for some spreads are lower than outrights. So buy Jan, Sell Jan/Feb spread, Sell Feb does not equal 4*normal commissions.#

# Of course I'm not sure that brokers like Tradestation would let you do this.

1) pay no fee for the offset but still pay "per side"

2) almost no one does that, even still 40c instead of $1.30 is still per side.

3) spreads are treated differently, but AFAIK still pay per side.

Paying less is not the same as not paying per side.

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  #8 (permalink)
 
SMCJB's Avatar
 SMCJB 
Houston TX
Legendary Market Wizard
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TT Stellar & Tradestation
Broker: Primarily Advantage Futures
Trading: Primarily Energy but also a little Equities, Fixed Income, Metals, U308 and Crypto.
Frequency: Many times daily
Duration: Never
Posts: 5,081 since Dec 2013
Thanks Given: 4,427
Thanks Received: 10,266

wow touchy. I never said you do not pay per side. Was just highlighting the ways in which the round turn cost isn't 2X the basic per side cost. Which is a reason its priced per side and not per round turn.

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  #9 (permalink)
SunTrader
Boca Raton, FL
 
Posts: 263 since Nov 2018
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SMCJB View Post
wow touchy....

Funny. I'm thinking the same.

Your responded to my post. I responded to yours. Isn't it how it supposed to work?

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  #10 (permalink)
 
SMCJB's Avatar
 SMCJB 
Houston TX
Legendary Market Wizard
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: TT Stellar & Tradestation
Broker: Primarily Advantage Futures
Trading: Primarily Energy but also a little Equities, Fixed Income, Metals, U308 and Crypto.
Frequency: Many times daily
Duration: Never
Posts: 5,081 since Dec 2013
Thanks Given: 4,427
Thanks Received: 10,266


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