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How much should be expected from a Developer


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  #1 (permalink)
 
Aragorn's Avatar
 Aragorn 
Salt Lake City, UT
 
Experience: Intermediate
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I hired a Developer with extensive NinjaTrader programming experience to create an Indicator for me that plots Fibonacci levels on intraday swings. This guy created both automated fib retracements and extensions for free. I paid him because I needed a few modifications. He asked me what the Rules were . I sent him images and text describing what I needed. A few weeks later he sent them. They were awful. They were based on Zig Zag. When I asked them about why they weren't working right, he said, "You didn't ask me to have it find highs and lows."

My question is, "Is that reasonable?" For someone who has created fib indicators for free, is it required to spell out you want them drawn from high points to low points or vice versa? How much general trading knowledge can be expected from someone who has a pretty clear understanding of trading principles?

Thoughts?


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  #2 (permalink)
 
trendisyourfriend's Avatar
 trendisyourfriend 
Quebec Canada
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Aragorn View Post
I hired a Developer with extensive NinjaTrader programming experience to create an Indicator for me that plots Fibonacci levels on intraday swings. This guy created both automated fib retracements and extensions for free. I paid him because I needed a few modifications. He asked me what the Rules were . I sent him images and text describing what I needed. A few weeks later he sent them. They were awful. They were based on Zig Zag. When I asked them about why they weren't working right, he said, "You didn't ask me to have it find highs and lows."

My question is, "Is that reasonable?" For someone who has created fib indicators for free, is it required to spell out you want them drawn from high points to low points or vice versa? How much general trading knowledge can be expected from someone who has a pretty clear understanding of trading principles?

Thoughts?

The selection of highs and lows *can* be subjective, especially depending on the method used to define a swing. There are different ways to determine pivot points. Some traders use a fixed bar count, others use a Zig Zag, fractals, or even custom logic based on volatility or volume.

However, even with some subjectivity, a developer who has built Fibonacci tools before should have at least asked, **"How do you define swing points?"** if it wasn’t clear. Instead, it sounds like he made an assumption that led to an unusable result.

If your instructions were vague (e.g., "Draw Fibonacci from swings"), then yes, some room for interpretation exists. But his response "You didn't ask me to have it find highs and lows" suggests he ignored the fundamental purpose of the indicator. That’s the part that feels unreasonable.

A more reasonable response from him would have been:
*"I wasn't sure how you wanted to define swing points, so I defaulted to Zig Zag. If that doesn't work, we can refine it with different logic—maybe a bar-based approach, fractals, or another method you prefer."*

So yes, being clearer from the start could have helped, but an experienced NinjaTrader developer should have at least recognized the need for that discussion rather than delivering something that doesn't function as expected.


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  #3 (permalink)
 
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 Aragorn 
Salt Lake City, UT
 
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I feel like it's akin to telling a mechanic he should turn the vehicle off before changing the spark plugs.


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  #4 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
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Aragorn View Post
I feel like it's akin to telling a mechanic he should turn the vehicle off before changing the spark plugs.

Good developers might not have good trading knowledge. That is my experience, in any event.

Akin to asking a mechanic to win the Indy 500.

Anytime I've hired a programmer, I was hyper specific with what I wanted.


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  #5 (permalink)
Snowtrade873
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developers are different. Maybe he didn't do the first job himself... Or he's currently working on another project.
Are there language barriers?


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  #6 (permalink)
 
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 Aragorn 
Salt Lake City, UT
 
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Snowtrade873 View Post
developers are different. Maybe he didn't do the first job himself... Or he's currently working on another project.
Are there language barriers?

No. He lives in Florida.
He's done work for me in the past. His work was good.
In addition to the Fib Retracement Indicator he, at the same time, did a Fib Extension Indicator.
I knew something was wrong when the Extensions were set to 23.6, 38.2, 50, 61.8 and 76.4 instead of 123.6, 138.2, 150, 161.8 and 176.4


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  #7 (permalink)
 tr8d3r 
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I am working with developers 5 days a week for last 20 years.

In this time I learned one thing: Do not expect anything from the dev and be super precise what you are asking.

The request should be in clear define statements captured in a small sentence that not allowing developer to take a step left or right.

It is also helps you to test because you can put a tick if test is fail you asked why this statement is not delivered.

When you do it this way, you know you are going to get what you've asked for without any blond moments.


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  #8 (permalink)
Emma1
london,uk
 
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Aragorn View Post
I hired a Developer with extensive NinjaTrader programming experience to create an Indicator for me that plots Fibonacci levels on intraday swings. This guy created both automated fib retracements and extensions for free. I paid him because I needed a few modifications. He asked me what the Rules were . I sent him images and text describing what I needed. A few weeks later he sent them. They were awful. They were based on Zig Zag. When I asked them about why they weren't working right, he said, "You didn't ask me to have it find highs and lows."

My question is, "Is that reasonable?" For someone who has created fib indicators for free, is it required to spell out you want them drawn from high points to low points or vice versa? How much general trading knowledge can be expected from someone who has a pretty clear understanding of trading principles?

Thoughts?

The question is how advanced is He?Perphaps i can help with my over 16years of programming.


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  #9 (permalink)
 
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 Aragorn 
Salt Lake City, UT
 
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{sigh} I think at least part of the issue is I made some assumptions that blew up on me. I was relying on the fact that he had already made them and put them out there for free. Because of that I assumed I didn't have to go into a lot of specifics and details. I assumed he would just modify his to meet the few general things I wanted.
I also assumed that because I was a paying customer he'd, how to say this(?), upgrade, create more robust, adaptive, kick butt from the free versions.
I was wrong on every assumption. I needed to go into great detail. He brought nothing to the table. Instead of upgrading, I think he downgraded the quality.

I'm a trader. I'm not a programmer. I look at a chart and see high and low swings. Don't ask me how to write a program to find them. I wouldn't have a clue. Yeah, I relied on him to figure out how to code it. In any event, lesson learned.


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  #10 (permalink)
 
Aragorn's Avatar
 Aragorn 
Salt Lake City, UT
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader
Broker: NinjaTrader Brokerage
Trading: ES, 6E
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Emma1 View Post
The question is how advanced is He?Perphaps i can help with my over 16years of programming.

Thank you Emma for your kind offer. I have a few things on my plate at the moment but I will definitely reach out when I'm ready.


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