SMCJB 

@leenchoifutures I would agree that spreads require less money to trade and if your doing it right can have a higher win%. The problem is fees and slippage are more significant, to the point that it makes some trades impossible for retail. As I've said I primarily trade energy spreads. To be effective at this I have a NYMEX seat lease which means my exchange fees are half what non-members pay. This is important because I could buy & sell a Butterfly or Spread of Spreads (ie 4 legs x 2 = 8 legs) and still make money if I can make a single tick (ie $10)!.

@SMCJB

I see, If you're trading frequently and aiming for small profits, fees can definitely add up. However, my partner and I actually trade very infrequently. You can see the exact fees we pay in the screenshots we've shared.

For example, in November 2024, when we made a +18.3% return of $6633.38, our total fees were only $205.84. We really focus on minimizing our trades and only enter when it's absolutely worthwhile. My partner, Lee, even runs offline seminars at Kyobo(one of the big ones in Korea) Securities' main building from time to time under their invitation, yet we still don’t have any special fee arrangement with them.

The only additional cost not shown in the screenshots is the 10% tax on earnings we pay annually. In Korea, if you trade futures and make a profit through a whole year, you're taxed 10% on those earnings every May of the next year.

leenchoifutures 

@SMCJBI see, If you're trading frequently and aiming for small profits, fees can definitely add up.

Trading spreads, fees are double trading outrights. This has nothing to do with whether its short term or long term. The math is quite simple ~ your win %percentage has to be higher to cover the increased costs.

leenchoifutures 

However, my partner and I actually trade very infrequently. You can see the exact fees we pay in the screenshots we've shared. For example, in November 2024, when we made a +18.3% return of $6633.38, our total fees were only $205.84. We really focus on minimizing our trades and only enter when it's absolutely worthwhile. My partner, Lee, even runs offline seminars at Kyobo(one of the big ones in Korea) Securities' main building from time to time under their invitation, yet we still don’t have any special fee arrangement with them.

If the point of this thread is to talk about spread trading lets do it.
If the point of the thread is to talk about how successful you have been I congratulate you but do not see what else there is to talk about?

leenchoifutures 

The only additional cost not shown in the screenshots is the 10% tax on earnings we pay annually. In Korea, if you trade futures and make a profit through a whole year, you're taxed 10% on those earnings every May of the next year.

In the US we have what are called Short Term Capital Gains, which is the tax rate on stock trading positions held for last than 1 year.
Then we have what are called Long Term Capital Gains, which is the tax rate on stock trading positions held for greater than 1 year.
Short term Capital Gains are taxed at your income rate, which changes depending upon your income.
Long term Capital Gains are taxed at 20% which in almost all cases is lower than the short term rate.
Future's have a different tax rate. They are taxed at 60% Short Term & 40% Short Term. So if your in the top tax bracket your paying 40% * 37% & 60% * 20% = blended 26.8% tax rate which is lower than the 37% top rate/rate at which short term gains would be taxed.

edited: corrected typo and added last line.

SMCJB 

Long term Capital Gains are taxed at 20% which in almost all cases is higher than the short term rate.

To avoid confusion for non-US persons I think you meant Long term rates are almost always *lower* than the short term rate.

SMCJB 

Trading spreads, fees are double trading outrights. This has nothing to do with whether its short term or long term. The math is quite simple ~ your win %percentage has to be higher to cover the increased costs. If the point of this thread is to talk about spread trading lets do it. If the point of the thread is to talk about how successful you have been I congratulate you but do not see what else there is to talk about? In the US we have what are called Short Term Capital Gains, which is the tax rate on stock trading positions held for last than 1 year. Then we have what are called Long Term Capital Gains, which is the tax rate on stock trading positions held for greater than 1 year. Short term Capital Gains are taxed at your income rate, which changes depending upon your income. Long term Capital Gains are taxed at 20% which in almost all cases is higher than the short term rate. Future's have a different tax rate. They are taxed at 60% Short Term & 40% Short Term. So if your in the top tax bracket your paying 40% * 37% & 60% * 20% = blended 26.8% tax rate.

I see taxes in the US are much higher. Thank you for the detailed explanation.

Apologies if the purpose of this thread wasn't clear. As mentioned in the OP, the goal of this thread is to continue sharing our results by posting real-time updates whenever we enter new positions or close previous ones.

It may sound arrogant, but as a team, we are confident that we now possess the skills and strategies needed to manage much larger accounts with proper risk management. Having lived in South Korea our entire lives, we have no connections outside of Korea.

Our initial goal is to create a journal thread that everyone can recognize as legitimate. After months of consistent results, we might consider reaching out to prop firms for potential funding, though we're not certain yet. Either way, we’d like to expand our network and connect with people outside of Korea.

So first of all, it's a pleasure meeting you @SMCJB!

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No updates on the current positions, they remain the same as last Friday.

Added 1 contract of FGBLM25(LONG) and OATH25(SHORT) each.

SILH25 switched to SILK25

Current balance: -1,388,519 Won, about -$1000

leenchoifutures 

Added 1 contract of FGBLM25(LONG) and OATH25(SHORT) each.

FGBL is EuroBund on Eurex which track the price of German Bonds with a term of 8.5-10 years.
I assume OAT Is the Eurex FOAT contract? They track the price of French Bonds with a term of 8.5-10 years.
By spreading FGBL vs FOAT you are making a trade on German vs French interest rates. Any elaboration on why?

SMCJB 

FGBL is EuroBund on Eurex which track the price of German Bonds with a term of 8.5-10 years. I assume OAT Is the Eurex FOAT contract? They track the price of French Bonds with a term of 8.5-10 years. By spreading FGBL vs FOAT you are making a trade on German vs French interest rates. Any elaboration on why?

The two are definitely related (in our opinion). If you look at past movements, it's pretty clear.

February of 2025 (9th month) closed with a negative P/L. It's the first negative month we've experienced so far since we opened this account.





Current positions are as follows:

2025.03.03 Update:

No changes to the current positions.



Current positions P/L: - $1509.71

2025.03.04 Update:

Replaced OATH25 and FGBLH25 with OATM25 and FGBLM25 due to monthly maturity.

March so far finalized P/L: -$1259.90
Account's current P/L: -$29.68