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Thanks @fivewhy - was never aware that Jigsaw (I own it) does not have a backfill for historical data - and nor Ninja for their order flow analysis tools (I own Ninja as well).
Wasn’t sure what “MBO” stands for ? (Major block orders ? 😎
I have also watched delta footprint for a long time - and cannot say I have found an “edge”.
Also mainly as a CL trader - these tools are less adequate - as it is a thin market.
Just my 2c 🍷
P.S. Fort Lauderdale you say? Love that city! Used to live in the area in 1996 - is Mango’s still around on Las Olas Blvd - or the “elbow room” on the corner next to the beach ? (Baja beach club used to be next to it I think )
Look, i might be wrong. If i am, then my apologies. The order book on jigssw is solid. Havent really used the heat map on jigsaw in a while. Maybe others can chime in w their knowledge.
Mbo = market by order, which is in contrast to market by price. Check out the link i posted.
Like all order flow tools. They are subjective. Jigsaw admit that themselves as per the attached. There are no setups with order flow.
Of course, if the organisation of the information with volume bubbles and all the jazz helps your trading, then all the power to you.
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- Trade what you see. Invest in what you believe -
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"The use of order flow is subjective" But the numbers are real - orders that are executed are printed on the DOM. Those are real numbers. I think you missed the point.
As I said, I use Jigsaw and Bookmap as confirmation of the algos I am running on my charts. If the net numbers are moving up, it's a long. If they're moving down, it's a short. It's not rocket science. Bookmap is graphic. The market is visual. If you can't see what's going on in the market, you may as well be trading in a dark closet.
Tools are tools. Once again, it's not rocket science or black magic. Either you know how to trade using the tools or you don't.
There was a point? Can you quote me where I said the DOM numbers were not real?
What I did say was that Order Flow is subjective. I then went on to say that if it works for you, then all the power to you.
I extensively used and tested Jigsaw over many months. I found no statistically edge in using that software unless I wanted to trade like Peter and take a tick or two out of the market, which isn't enough for me.
Combined with my own algorithms I can see perhaps additional confidence being gained for the trade, but no setup was generated because of Order Flow itself, because there are not any.
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- Trade what you see. Invest in what you believe -
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And as I said, these are tools and like any tool, you use it to your benefit or you don't. John Grady seems to think there are setups in the DOM and he's been around for a long time. I prefer to use these tools to confirm my own programs that I run on charts. It works for me.
Just as a sideline, Ninja has been failing every day this week. Data stream stopped cold. Bookmap continued to run. Not sure why as Bookmap is using Ninja data. Happened once this morning as well.
As I said, if it works for you to confirm your own setups then that is great. Having used most Order Flow tools myself, I am firmly in the camp of this review.
Did BookMap incorporate a few strategies into the platform that have some sort of statistical validity? I know that was requested by Emmett but the case went cold, unless they have something now?
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- Trade what you see. Invest in what you believe -
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I agree it's not about strategies or setups in the platform itself. If you find one, that's nice, but I haven't. I use it only as confirmation of my own automated signals. I attended their last webinar on Friday last. The person conducting the webinar was pointing out a lot of arbitrary potential trades which never happened - "it's up, it's down" etc. So I understand where's you're coming from. However, as a trading tool, I like it because it is graphic. But it's not a crystal ball or a fortune teller.
CL is very choppy today - really tough trading. But I was able to use Bookmap simply by looking at the size of the "bubbles" which either confirmed or denied what I was intending to do. I think it shows tops/bottoms fairly well too on intraday charts. I bailed more losers than winners, but up on the day so far by about $700. So it's a utility, a tool. Has a few bugs - doesn't load immediately - today had to restart Ninja twice to get it running. Jigsaw is all numbers which suits me just fine. So putting the two together has been a plus for me.