I’m doing some market research in relation to online trading bot marketplaces…think the MQL5 marketplace for Metatrader or NinjaTrader’s Ecosystem portal.

I’m intrigued to understand if you would you ever consider buying a trading bot / algo online? If so…

1. What would you need to know about the algo from the vendor to convince you to make a purchase?
2. Would seeing live forward test data of the algos performance post development provide you with enough confidence to purchase? i.e. not backtested historical trade performance.
3. How much would you pay for an algo? Would very cheap, or very expensive algo’s make you suspiscous?
4. Would you prefer to lease the algo or buy it outright?

If you have ever bought one before, how was your experience? What did you pay for it? Did the experience live up to your expectations?

Full disclosure from me, I have previously bought a monthly subscription for a portfolio of algos but I did not maintain the subscription as the algos were catered for mini futures contracts whereas I was using micros at the time and the trading frequency of the algos made trading micros unprofitable due to the proportionally higher commissions on micros over minis.

I’d really welcome your thoughts.

Burtoninlondon 

I’m doing some market research in relation to online trading bot marketplaces…think the MQL5 marketplace for Metatrader or NinjaTrader’s Ecosystem portal. I’m intrigued to understand if you would you ever consider buying a trading bot / algo online? If so… 1. What would you need to know about the algo from the vendor to convince you to make a purchase? 2. Would seeing live forward test data of the algos performance post development provide you with enough confidence to purchase? i.e. not backtested historical trade performance. 3. How much would you pay for an algo? Would very cheap, or very expensive algo’s make you suspiscous? 4. Would you prefer to lease the algo or buy it outright? If you have ever bought one before, how was your experience? What did you pay for it? Did the experience live up to your expectations? Full disclosure from me, I have previously bought a monthly subscription for a portfolio of algos but I did not maintain the subscription as the algos were catered for mini futures contracts whereas I was using micros at the time and the trading frequency of the algos made trading micros unprofitable due to the proportionally higher commissions on micros over minis. I’d really welcome your thoughts.

Burton,
Read your post and it is something I've thought of writing many times...FYI, I have tried to set up some algos using ninjacators, but with no success and their customer support is BS...So I will be very curious to see what kind of feedback you get...many thanks, RJ

Not entirely sure if this is allowed but anyway, will respond as I see this on passing.

Quoting 

I’m intrigued to understand if you would you ever consider buying a trading bot / algo online? If so…

No.

Quoting 

1. What would you need to know about the algo from the vendor to convince you to make a purchase?

If it was yes, it's past records on different scripts and timeframes.

Quoting 

2. Would seeing live forward test data of the algos performance post development provide you with enough confidence to purchase? i.e. not backtested historical trade performance.

Not really.

Quoting 

3. How much would you pay for an algo? Would very cheap, or very expensive algo’s make you suspiscous?

That's a very iffy territory, in first if it's on sale, I'll by default assume it's useless.

Quoting 

4. Would you prefer to lease the algo or buy it outright?

If yes, then I would likely ask for as much control on my end as possible.

Watch out if buying/leasing an algo. There are a lot of misconceptions out there...

The reality is that it is VERY tough to trade someone else's algo and succeed.

Check out @SMCJB study on signal providers, it is eye opening.

iSystems Journal Greetings and welcome to my iSystems Journal. While most people seem to create journals to help them with the psychological aspects of trading, the intent of this journal is to document my experiences with isystems.com in the hope that it may be helpful …

1. What would you need to know about the algo from the vendor to convince you to make a purchase?
I would be more interested in learning about the vendor (investigate his reputation) and how he developed the strategy. Many nice looking algos are over-optimized pieces of garbage

2. Would seeing live forward test data of the algos performance post development provide you with enough confidence to purchase? i.e. not backtested historical trade performance.
Absolutely, this is what really matters. Question is though: can you believe the vendor with what the vendor says is "live forward"? That then goes back to question 1. Really, the only "live forward" you can 100% believe is having the algo in your hands and watching its performance live.

3. How much would you pay for an algo? Would very cheap, or very expensive algo’s make you suspicous?
Leasing -$100-250 per month seems reasonable. Purchasing could be a LOT more, depending on black box or not, etc. Just as a warning, there is a group out there selling an algo for $18K or so, with monthly fee. Black box. They show great results. Their algos got totally wiped out Summer 2024. Clients lost probably millions. And cheap ones are likely cheap because they do not work, but there are exceptions.

4. Would you prefer to lease the algo or buy it outright?
I think you'd want to get access to the code, whatever that entails.



Personally, I'd recommend you build you own algos. If you do it correctly, you'll have much more confidence in them going forward.

This forum has some pretty strong rules against self promotion and @kevinkdog is doing a great job abiding by them. As it happens he actually did a video 3 weeks ago where he asks similar questions but with regards to a specific system he found on the internet which had the following equity curve.



"How Good Is This Algo Trading Strategy?"

• I found this strategy on the Internet:
• Looks pretty good!
• Is it real?
• Can I duplicate the results?
• Can I make a viable strategy out of it?

Video below. I think it does a great job of showing what you really need to be careful of when considering trading anything other than systems developed by anybody other than yourself.

EvgheniiADS 

Hello ! As a trader who’s tested tons of solutions and now works in marketing for a trading tool like this, I’m really curious about what others think. To answer your questions: 1. I’d want the vendor to explain the algo’s basic logic and how it handles the market. 2. Live forward tests are key for trust—historical data isn’t enough. 3. Price doesn’t matter if the tool works, but there needs to be a trial or some way to verify it, especially if it’s pricey. 4. Leasing feels more practical—better for testing and flexibility. I’m trading HFT now with software I found through a friend’s recommendation. Ended up joining the company behind it. I’ve tried tons of tools, but I settled on a terminal I wouldn’t have picked as a user at first—too complex, with server rentals and all that hassle. We all look for easy wins, but no miracles here: to make money, I had to put in the effort.

GREAT REPLY!! especially because I agree with every word of it...and most especially the bit about leasing rather than purchasing BEFORE it has made you any $$...I will be very curious to follow this thread, and many thanks for your input! RJ

rickjames 

GREAT REPLY!! especially because I agree with every word of it...and most especially the bit about leasing rather than purchasing BEFORE it has made you any $$...I will be very curious to follow this thread, and many thanks for your input! RJ

Evghenni,
I have been away from markets for quite a while and am thinking of getting back in if I can find an Algo that not only makes sense but also works--that is, makes money...
Am curious to know if you ever found anything to lease within the terms you laid out so well in your previous post...
Hope you are well, wherever you are.
Rick James
[email protected] (feel free to email me directly)

rickjames 

Evghenni, I have been away from markets for quite a while and am thinking of getting back in if I can find an Algo that not only makes sense but also works--that is, makes money... Am curious to know if you ever found anything to lease within the terms you laid out so well in your previous post... Hope you are well, wherever you are. Rick James [email protected] (feel free to email me directly)

Hi Rick,

Just to make you aware, the guy you mentioned in this thread was banned for self-promotion, so he's unable to reply to your query.


I cannot vouch for any algo trading system myself, and I would be extremely wary of anyone promising algos that make easy money. Chances are, over 95% of what's out there is snake oil.

But if I were to recommend someone in that space to learn from, I would recommend Kevin Davey (@kevinkdog on this site): he is the only algo trader I have come across who does not sell BS and other serious traders on this site speak highly of him too.

Hope this helps.

Thank you sooooooooo much for your blunt and honest reply...having been burned myself by none other than Mike VAltos I know what you mean tos say, so i will reach out to Kevin.
Again, many thanks,
Rick James

Burtoninlondon 

I’m doing some market research in relation to online trading bot marketplaces…think the MQL5 marketplace for Metatrader or NinjaTrader’s Ecosystem portal. I’m intrigued to understand if you would you ever consider buying a trading bot / algo online? If so… 1. What would you need to know about the algo from the vendor to convince you to make a purchase? 2. Would seeing live forward test data of the algos performance post development provide you with enough confidence to purchase? i.e. not backtested historical trade performance. 3. How much would you pay for an algo? Would very cheap, or very expensive algo’s make you suspiscous? 4. Would you prefer to lease the algo or buy it outright? If you have ever bought one before, how was your experience? What did you pay for it? Did the experience live up to your expectations? Full disclosure from me, I have previously bought a monthly subscription for a portfolio of algos but I did not maintain the subscription as the algos were catered for mini futures contracts whereas I was using micros at the time and the trading frequency of the algos made trading micros unprofitable due to the proportionally higher commissions on micros over minis. I’d really welcome your thoughts.

Hello Burton,
I'm curious to know the results of the thread you began over a year ago.
I too have purchased algos from Ninjacators that did not pan out and have told myself I will never buy another one--only lease until it proves its worth to me.
So I guess I'm asking as politely as I can--did you ever find anything worth the cost that met your criteria?
For what it is worth I only want it to trade futures (micros or minis) as I have no interest in options, cryptos or anything exotic of that sort.
Thank you in advance if you are able to respond and please accept my apologies for whatever inconveniences my instrusion may have caused.
Feel free to contact me directly via email if you are so inclined.
Yours truly,
Rick James ([email protected])