VirtualMark 

Or perhaps they are worried that they're paying out too much to influencers who have 20 accounts and draw $80k a month(and I've never seen any of these people pass their accounts live, such as the fraud "TradesByMatt" who magically had 20 accounts one day, but that's another subject).

While I agree on your other points, I have to ask, can you prove that he's a fraud? If not, that's a pretty serious allegation that you should retract.

josh 

While I agree on your other points, I have to ask, can you prove that he's a fraud? If not, that's a pretty serious allegation that you should retract.

No I can't prove it, it's just an opinion based on watching him lie live on stream dozens of times. Such as saying he's not selling anything, when he has affiliate links on his videos, and has made videos about Topstep and Apex.

I watched him a couple of years back quite a bit, and he would routinely average into losers and get $10k losses, but the next day be "green and happy" with a $300 win. I added up his videos for the past few days and he'd lose thousands then win a couple of hundred, and there's just no way he could make it back in a reasonable time frame.

I watched him blow Topstep accounts, then the next day he appeared on stream with a passed account. He's trading Apex now, and making out like his a "million dollar trader", literally had a video saying that. Another video said he's the "second best trader in the world". Pure clickbait nonsensical lies.

Seen threads on Reddit where people posted screenshots proving he was sim trading. There's dozens of threads about him, and how he loses a fortune live, but then "makes it all back off stream".

One can't say Apex doesn't listen to the market....


Apex

I've seen a high profile YouTuber openly say on livestream that his strategy doesn't work on a real live account, but it works with prop firms because his maximum risk on any trade is just the cost of the eval + PA + 1 day to pass. So his policy is to risk the entire account on every trade, for a very small scalp.

If he has a losing trade, his personal loss is just $101.70. If he wins 8 scalps in a row (risking the entire account on each scalp), he wins $2000. This is an excellent payout strategy, but it isn't a trading strategy. If Apex allow this to happen on a large scale, they would go bust without a doubt.

Apex have not introduced any new rules. Rather, they are drawing attention to the existing rules and simply reiterating that obtaining payouts in this manner is not what they are looking for.

shokunin 

Apex have not introduced any new rules. Rather, they are drawing attention to the existing rules and simply reiterating that obtaining payouts in this manner is not what they are looking for.

Incorrect. The 3:1 risk to reward ratio is a new rule.

pipandrun 

One can't say Apex doesn't listen to the market.... Apex

Yeah, so that gives 11 trading days to make $15000 with a $6500 trailing drawdown, or the fee goes back to $300. It's putting pressure on anyone who's bought these accounts to trade aggressively, and they know loads of people will fail.

It's not a great account anyway. The $50k account is way easier to pass, having $2.5k drawdown with a $3k target. You could buy 10 of these and just trade a micro or two on each, a much safer way to trade.

The only problem then is that you'd have to worry even more about getting paid, so instead of focusing on trading you will be worried that you have broken one of Apex's many rules. Did I leave enough time after the news release to place this trade? Is my risk reward bracket set within their parameters? Will they see this trade as part of my trading plan? Etc. It all feels like a distracting headache to me.

VirtualMark 

Yeah, so that gives 11 trading days to make $15000 with a $6500 trailing drawdown, or the fee goes back to $300. It's putting pressure on anyone who's bought these accounts to trade aggressively, and they know loads of people will fail. It's not a great account anyway. The $50k account is way easier to pass, having $2.5k drawdown with a $3k target. You could buy 10 of these and just trade a micro or two on each, a much safer way to trade. The only problem then is that you'd have to worry even more about getting paid, so instead of focusing on trading you will be worried that you have broken one of Apex's many rules. Did I leave enough time after the news release to place this trade? Is my risk reward bracket set within their parameters? Will they see this trade as part of my trading plan? Etc. It all feels like a distracting headache to me.

Yes, that were my thoughts, too. The 25k-account is even the best concerning the ratio target/drawdown $1.5k-$1.5k
I am curious on my next contract how they exactly implement these new PA-rules. How many minutes after an important news release one is not allowed to trade i.e.?

shokunin 

Apex have not introduced any new rules. Rather, they are drawing attention to the existing rules and simply reiterating that obtaining payouts in this manner is not what they are looking for.

This is the question if they have. At least on their discord channel they have. But the discord channel is not an official site from Apex. It is not clear. We'll see it in the next contract (except the ones who will never ever will blow their existing account again....)

pipandrun 

Yes, that were my thoughts, too. The 25k-account is even the best concerning the ratio target/drawdown $1.5k-$1.5k I am curious on my next contract how they exactly implement these new PA-rules. How many minutes after an important news release one is not allowed to trade i.e.?

Yes that's my issue, the rules seem to be intentionally ambiguous, which would leave everything to their discretion and give them almost any excuse to not pay out.

Compare this to Tradeday, who have a clear rule about being flat I think 1 or 2 minutes before and after a news release. It's a fair and well defined rule.

Imagine if everything in life were like Apex's rules. You buy a ticket in a car park and it says you can stay for a while but not for too long else you might get a fine. 😂

pipandrun 

This is the question if they have. At least on their discord channel they have. But the discord channel is not an official site from Apex. It is not clear. We'll see it in the next contract (except the ones who will never ever will blow their existing account again....)

Per their Discord:

Darrell: "THERE ARE NO NEW RULES - all these rules have existed since inception - this is just examples to answer the many questions we get and to make sure everyone understands as we have a new compliance team that will be enforcing

its not 1:3 its 3:1 meaning dont risk more than 3x what your shooting for on a consistent basis if yo haev to close early now and then thats fine"

I can't find Darrell's quote, but many mods have confirmed the following, Tradekage (mod): "you can add into a loser ONCE as darrell said. 1x"

I've read the site and my old PA agreements, I can't find a 3:1 ratio in there anywhere. There are general terms around risk management, etc., but not specific in terms of how much you are allowed to risk per trade. If I ask myself, would I, or a hypothetical trader need to change their approach based on how they're enforcing this new risk management, my answer would be yes and therefore I would also argue it's a new rule.

For the DCA, that has always been against the rules, but in practice, you have been allowed to DCA if you have a methodology, risk management, etc.. Many people have had payouts using DCA (more than 1x) over the years. This is a definite change in how they are enforcing the no DCA rule, so I would make the same argument that it's a new rule that people need to consider in their approach with Apex.