VirtualMark 

I don't think you understand, it's not DCA that's the issue, it's how people do it. I might be looking to buy the bottom of a trading range, it's very hard to pinpoint the exact entry, and I might want to split my order up 2 or 3 times to get a better position. I.e I buy 3MNQ at 18100 and it pulls back to 18095 and I buy another 3, then it pulls back to 18090 and I buy my final 3. I'm now long with 9 micros so 0.9 minis, with an average entry price of 18095. If it pulls back much further it will hit my stop and I'll be out of the trade. Compare this to someone why put 1 mini on at 18100, they would be in a lot more drawdown than I am. But to Apex, this is unacceptable, even though I pose less of a risk in this case. My other issue is the way they implemented this enforcement - there was no grace period, to give traders a chance to adapt their strategy. Instead there was just blanket denials, and people were called cheaters and scammers. It's not a great way to do business. I'm glad to hear that you are still getting paid ok. But I do wonder for how much longer, when will they decide they don't like your strategy? After all they have rules against trading the morning open, trading different sizes, trading different days, etc. I struggle to understand exactly what they do allow.

Its not really that difficult at all tbh. With any prop firm, if you know how to play the game, then its fairly easy. Your style of trading may not be compatible, so to succeed you have to adapt.

Your style of trading you mentioned above is not what I would do. I start off with 5 micros, when moved in my direction ill add 5 more and that's it. I wont continue to stab at a range, if im wrong then ill get out and reassess. Im trading within the range of the hourly candle starting at 10am est

The only rules on the open and news is for those that like to straddle the burst. Its not a trading style its straight up gambling. I have no idea what you mean by different days and sizes.

FXSurf 

Its not really that difficult at all tbh. With any prop firm, if you know how to play the game, then its fairly easy. Your style of trading may not be compatible, so to succeed you have to adapt. Your style of trading you mentioned above is not what I would do. I start off with 5 micros, when moved in my direction ill add 5 more and that's it. I wont continue to stab at a range, if im wrong then ill get out and reassess. Im trading within the range of the hourly candle starting at 10am est The only rules on the open and news is for those that like to straddle the burst. Its not a trading style its straight up gambling. I have no idea what you mean by different days and sizes.

I'll be honest, I don't care what you would do. That's not my issue, everyone trades differently. My issue is that they suddenly enforced these rules, and gave nobody any time to adapt before denying payouts. Honestly, I don't understand your attitude, it stinks of the "well I'm alright Jack" mentality. Just because it didn't affect you personally this time, it doesn't mean the next rule change or update won't.

If someone is consistently profitable, then their strategy should be allowed, and if Apex were truly looking for "funding partners" as they claim, then they should be happy to keep these consistently profitable traders. Instead they are going after everyone and denying payouts.

Straddling the news is not what I'm talking about. They don't like people trading the morning open, you can get a denial for this. But there can be good opportunities in the morning open, it's just a part of the trading day. They also say you're not allowed to "chase the market", whatever that means. If it's going up, i'm going to buy. What next? No trading reversals? Their rules are absurd.

They expect you to trade with consistent size, rather than changing sizes which is also grounds for denial.

Again, good for you that you're getting paid, but lots of people aren't. And it's making a lot of us not want to touch them with a 10ft pole as we simply can't trust that they do payout anymore, or that they won't change the rules and find some other aspect of trading they don't want.

VirtualMark 

I'll be honest, I don't care what you would do. That's not my issue, everyone trades differently. My issue is that they suddenly enforced these rules, and gave nobody any time to adapt before denying payouts. Honestly, I don't understand your attitude, it stinks of the "well I'm alright Jack" mentality. Just because it didn't affect you personally this time, it doesn't mean the next rule change or update won't. If someone is consistently profitable, then their strategy should be allowed, and if Apex were truly looking for "funding partners" as they claim, then they should be happy to keep these consistently profitable traders. Instead they are going after everyone and denying payouts. Straddling the news is not what I'm talking about. They don't like people trading the morning open, you can get a denial for this. But there can be good opportunities in the morning open, it's just a part of the trading day. They also say you're not allowed to "chase the market", whatever that means. If it's going up, i'm going to buy. What next? No trading reversals? Their rules are absurd. They expect you to trade with consistent size, rather than changing sizes which is also grounds for denial. Again, good for you that you're getting paid, but lots of people aren't. And it's making a lot of us not want to touch them with a 10ft pole as we simply can't trust that they do payout anymore, or that they won't change the rules and find some other aspect of trading they don't want.

Straddling the open is exactly what they are talking about. Ill be honest as well, its painfully obvious you haven't spent much time in the market. As a result have very low trade discipline and as a result, very low success. Its easy to blame others for you're inability to pull a profitable trade consistently. Until you stop moaning and start improving, that will never change.

FXSurf 

Straddling the open is exactly what they are talking about. Ill be honest as well, its painfully obvious you haven't spent much time in the market. As a result have very low trade discipline and as a result, very low success. Its easy to blame others for you're inability to pull a profitable trade consistently. Until you stop moaning and start improving, that will never change.

Now there's a pathetic excuse for a reply if I've ever seen one. 😂 "You don't agree with me, therefore you suck at trading" lol ok, if you say so. I think the discussion between us ends here, if you want to talk to people like an adult then perhaps try not to make nonsensical personal comments. This isn't about my trading, this is about an ambiguous set of rules being forced upon people with no notice.

A couple of helpful links for you:

https://www.yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

https://themindcollection.com/revisiting-grahams-hierarchy-of-disagreement/


And you're wrong, it's not just about straddling the open, this is what is listed in their help section. Both straddling and trading the morning open breakout is prohibited.

Quoting 

News trading, chasing the market, taking advantage of breakouts with no directional bias system, morning open breakout trading, non-directionally biased breakout bracket trades, any attempt for "windfalls" without following a strict, set, systematic trading system that is traded normal day to day in the account is prohibited and any amounts accumulated during prohibited times or trades will be removed the account as outline in the PA Consistency section and video series found on the Company website FAQ section.

Moderator Notice Guys, I know this is a vigorous discussion, but keep it helpful without allowing it to become heated. If you feel a post crosses the line of acceptable behavior in our community, use the report post feature -- do not personally engage with a "back-and-forth" argument, especially name calling.

Mike

VirtualMark 

Now there's a pathetic excuse for a reply if I've ever seen one. 😂 "You don't agree with me, therefore you suck at trading" lol ok, if you say so. I think the discussion between us ends here, if you want to talk to people like an adult then perhaps try not to make nonsensical personal comments. This isn't about my trading, this is about an ambiguous set of rules being forced upon people with no notice. A couple of helpful links for you: https://www.yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem https://themindcollection.com/revisiting-grahams-hierarchy-of-disagreement/ And you're wrong, it's not just about straddling the open, this is what is listed in their help section. Both straddling and trading the morning open breakout is prohibited.

You're the one who got instantly defensive. The rules aren't ambiguous at all for experienced profitable traders. Im coming from a position of experience. Like I said before, if you know how the game is played it's rather easy.

FXSurf 

The rules aren't ambiguous at all for experienced profitable traders.

Do they have a help page that deals with scaling in and out, and how this affects their DCA rule? For example, it should be clearly stated whether or not I can do this:

* buy 1 at X
* buy 1 at X-2
* sell 1 at X
* buy 1 at X-3

My contention all along is that I'm fine with rules, but not fine with a generality like "don't average down." That's not a rule. It's ambiguous. They have clarified that more than one add to a losing position is DCA'ing, which is not allowed. Ok. But there are multiple ways to calculate position average when scaling out.

Does this violate the DCA rule? , can you clarify the above?

One more ambiguity is "trading news" where they say that you can't 'ride the initial volatility wave' or something to that effect. That's ambiguous, obviously. Just say, "30 seconds before or after a scheduled news release, you must not enter a position", and it's clear, done, and no questions. Some of the best opportunities, and risk, in trading come with the volatility that accompanies news releases. The retail mindset is "avoid news." That's not how professionals approach trading. I totally understand a "don't open positions for 30 seconds before and after," as doing that can be quite like gambling. But clarify it, that's all I'm asking.

FXSurf 

You're the one who got instantly defensive. The rules aren't ambiguous at all for experienced profitable traders. Im coming from a position of experience. Like I said before, if you know how the game is played it's rather easy.

Sure, you're so experienced that you don't know the difference between a straddle and a breakout.

And again, it's not about how easy their account is to pass, my issue is with them changing the rules and denying payouts en masse. Try to follow the topic, this is fairly basic.

VirtualMark 

Sure, you're so experienced that you don't know the difference between a straddle and a breakout. And again, it's not about how easy their account is to pass, my issue is with them changing the rules and denying payouts en masse. Try to follow the topic, this is fairly basic.

Rules were always there. It was very basic for those that were paying attention. The only ones that felt blindsided were the ones who weren’t.

It is not clear to me where the claims are coming from. It would be nice if someone can back the claims with details, like statistics.

This guy runs statistics on the Apex payout.

Based on what I can see, it is very consistent.

So, Can someone indicate or point to the source where information is coming from when someone is saying that many people were decline.

Also clarify by many what is it percentage wise and what was their circumstances on that account.

My analogy would be for this situation is I purchase a new Hyundai car and it broke now, so I will tell everyone around that Hyundai car is a lemon car.

If you are such a confident trader and you are not happy with APEX rules, why would you waste you time and energy with this company, when you can go to other Funding company like Earn2trade, TST or for the matter of fact new company that is a sponsor of Nexusfi.

This is individual and you are taking something public why don't you go full on. Show stats of your trading and ask the question if it is fare or not, and let people judge on the provided facts.

All I am reading in the last posts is " The dogs bark, but the caravan goes on"