shokunin 

Apex have now responded to my payout denial. They confirm that scalping while in a trade is allowed, and this is not considered DCA. Due to the way their system currently identifies DCA (more than one execution in red), these trades will initially be flagged as DCA. A manual review is required to look at each individual trade in depth, and the DCA flag will be removed for scalps. Once Apex becomes familiar with the trader's approach and stats, Apex mark the accounts so repeated denials should not occur. I am happy with this explanation and I now believe Apex are seeking long-term relationships with consistently profitable traders. 2/3 of my queried payouts have now been sent, and the 3rd is being processed. On a more general note surrounding the current Apex FUD, here are some observations I've made over the past few weeks: 1. Staff are working evenings, weekends and bank holidays to deal with payout issues. 2. New staff have been recruited. 3. Servers have been upgraded and recent Rithmic issues have been fixed following two weekends of upgrades. 4. The CEO regularly interacts with traders on         and Facebook, and will answer questions. 5. Recent issues in the FX prop space has resulted in a lot of new sign-ups for Apex. 6. Month-on-month, Apex payouts are increasing. 7. Apex has a loyal fanbase and staff that are extremely passionate about the company. In my opinion, this does not look like a company that is in trouble.

Thanks for the update, and glad to hear you got a realization. but how do you observe specifically that new staff were hired or that the staff are working weekends ? That feels like information only someone from inside the company would know

and while it’s good they are upgrading servers, and are having good success, I expect a company to handle customer and not complain they have too many people. If their servers can’t handle the load then reject new signups or increase the cost to reduce the inflow of signups

shokunin 

Apex have now responded to my payout denial. They confirm that scalping while in a trade is allowed, and this is not considered DCA. Due to the way their system currently identifies DCA (more than one execution in red), these trades will initially be flagged as DCA. A manual review is required to look at each individual trade in depth, and the DCA flag will be removed for scalps. Once Apex becomes familiar with the trader's approach and stats, Apex mark the accounts so repeated denials should not occur. I am happy with this explanation and I now believe Apex are seeking long-term relationships with consistently profitable traders. 2/3 of my queried payouts have now been sent, and the 3rd is being processed. On a more general note surrounding the current Apex FUD, here are some observations I've made over the past few weeks: 1. Staff are working evenings, weekends and bank holidays to deal with payout issues. 2. New staff have been recruited. 3. Servers have been upgraded and recent Rithmic issues have been fixed following two weekends of upgrades. 4. The CEO regularly interacts with traders on         and Facebook, and will answer questions. 5. Recent issues in the FX prop space has resulted in a lot of new sign-ups for Apex. 6. Month-on-month, Apex payouts are increasing. 7. Apex has a loyal fanbase and staff that are extremely passionate about the company. In my opinion, this does not look like a company that is in trouble.

A good portion of their headache has been due to #5.

The mass migration from CFD prop degen’s and cheap barrier to entry created a massive headache.

Just this past week many rookies were caught in the roll and blew up their accounts as a result. Of course they blamed everyone else but themselves.

FXSurf 

A good portion of their headache has been due to #5.

How do you know this? (Or did you perhaps mean to say "Apex claims that …" at the start of your statement?)

FXSurf 

Just this past week many rookies were caught in the roll and blew up their accounts as a result.

That doesn’t happen at the other futures prop firms I know about, because people taking their evaluations get an error message through their trading platform, if they’re in danger of not trading the front month.

Is Apex trying to help people out, or to catch them out?

Tymbeline 

How do you know this? (Or did you perhaps mean to say "Apex claims that …" at the start of your statement?) That doesn’t happen at the other futures prop firms I know about, because people taking their evaluations get an error message through their trading platform, if they’re in danger of not trading the front month. Is Apex trying to help people out, or to catch them out?

I had been active in the CFD prop space for the past few years thru the collapse. I had also been with Apex since last fall. I saw the influx of new members piling into the space. Stumbling into various firms TopStep, TradeDay, etc. The volume of obvious newcomers was increasing on the socials and their         server had become increasingly painful to witness. Most were piling into futures without taking any time to learn the basics.

Most had no idea what they were doing in the CFD space as it was. That space has the dumbest of the dumb.

If people are going to jump into the pool blindfolded, they should at least know which end to dive into and how deep the pool is.

It shouldn’t be the firms role to hand out copies of “Futures for Dummies.”

FXSurf 

It shouldn’t be the firms role to hand out copies of “Futures for Dummies.”

I didn't suggest that.

You mentioned that large numbers lost their Apex evaluation accounts by trading the wrong month on rollover day, so I pointed out that this doesn't happen at the other futures prop firms I know about, because people taking their evaluations get an error message through their trading platform, if they're in danger of not trading the front month. And I asked the obvious question arising from that: whether Apex is trying to help people out, or to catch them out (which you didn't answer, but perhaps we can all easily deduce the answer for ourselves.)

Tymbeline 

I didn't suggest that. You mentioned that large numbers lost their Apex evaluation accounts by trading the wrong month on rollover day, so I pointed out that this doesn't happen at the other futures prop firms I know about, because people taking their evaluations get an error message through their trading platform, if they're in danger of not trading the front month. And I asked the obvious question arising from that: whether Apex is trying to help people out, or to catch them out (which you didn't answer, but perhaps we can all easily deduce the answer for ourselves.)

You are correct, typical whatever platform you’re on will tell you about the roll. Tradovate is popular for a lot of beginners and tells you when at launch. You still have to manually change your contract.

There were notifications (via        ) starting early in the week regarding upcoming roll, multiple times and yet there were still many that had no idea what that meant or what to do. You ever explain something to someone multiple times and yet they still don’t know what you’re talking about?

When I jumped into futures around 2019 I experienced a learning curve coming from FX CFD. It’s completely different in a lot of aspects. MT4 is child like easy and simple. I made my fair share of rookie mistakes but took the time before placing any trades.

Futures platforms, contract specs, all of it needs to be absorbed and understood to reduce costly mistakes. Many are more concerned with reaching that pot of gold before understanding how to get there.

Moderator Notice User has been banned permanently, after originally being banned for 7 days for repeated rudeness by . That was then extended to one month by me after his appeals made it clear he did not understand and needed more time to think it over. That is now a permanent lifetime ban after he created a duplicate account, another violation of forum rules.

Mike

FXSurf 

I had been active in the CFD prop space for the past few years thru the collapse. I had also been with Apex since last fall. I saw the influx of new members piling into the space. Stumbling into various firms TopStep, TradeDay, etc. The volume of obvious newcomers was increasing on the socials and their         server had become increasingly painful to witness. Most were piling into futures without taking any time to learn the basics. Most had no idea what they were doing in the CFD space as it was.

Hi ,

Can you explain a little about the "CFD prop space" and in particular its "collapse"?

I have never had any familiarity with the CFD world, other than knowing CFD's are not permitted in the US, and have no idea what has been going on there.

Not to go off-topic, but it might help me and others to understand what is happening in futures funding firms like Apex. I definitely have gotten the impression that Apex in particular has been overwhelmed by its volume recently, just based on what has been recounted in this thread.

Thanks.

Bob.

bobwest 

Hi , Can you explain a little about the "CFD prop space" and in particular its "collapse"? I have never had any familiarity with the CFD world, other than knowing CFD's are not permitted in the US, and have no idea what has been going on there. Not to go off-topic, but it might help me and others to understand what is happening in futures funding firms like Apex. I definitely have gotten the impression that Apex in particular has been overwhelmed by its volume recently, just based on what has been recounted in this thread. Thanks. Bob.

There's a lot that transpired during the time, but in essence the Forex CFD prop space got wildly popular, popping up all over, offering anyone who paid access, regardless of any regulation. CFD's have been banned in the US via DODD FRANK legislation after the housing collapse.

As popularity increased in became easier for anyone to create their own prop firm with very little $$$. You had sketchy actors/teenager's with zero knowledge of trading starting their own CFD prop firm.

Many of this new ones were nothing more then quick money grabs and folded overnight. The space attracted the sketchiest of people.

The bigger ones like MyForexFunds caught the attention of regulators and had their domain seized, bank accounts frozen, etc, shutting them down overnight. Acting as a unlicensed broker, Market Maker, various other claims That sent shockwaves thru the CFD space and many had to change. There were always claims of "live accounts" but really the model was people were paid out from challenge fees. The entire industry was a slight of hand was only a matter of time till regulators caught up.

The dominate platform in the CFD space was Metatrader. It also got caught in various lawsuits involving "pig butchering" and was forced to become restrictive on who could run on their platform.

As a result of regulators bringing the pain, and Metatrader shutting down access to non regulated firms. Many prop firms shuttered from client distrust and operating environment became increasingly difficult.

The CFD world is largely decentralized with many liquidity provider's with their own price feed that varies to others. There are tools available to manipulate feeds. freezes, slippage etc. It was widely known and used to the advantage of the broker. This is something not seen in futures, which is primarily centralized. Everyone is trading the same instrument at the same price. There is no ability to manipulate Rithmic, CQG feeds other then setting spreads and commissions.

The CFD space was cheap to enter.

The low barrier to enter with Apex allowed those displaced from cfd prop into futures. And they came in droves.

FXSurf 

There's a lot that transpired during the time, but in essence the Forex CFD prop space got wildly popular, popping up all over, offering anyone who paid access, regardless of any regulation.

Thanks. Very interesting. An odd corner of the trading world. I was never aware of it.

About what was the timeframe for all this? Also, were these US firms?

Bob.