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Back on July 28th Gary sent out a newsletter announcing a new website. Customers that bought the Jigsaw course will be able to get access to the new course at no cost. Hence why it's not on the Jigsaw site anymore.
I contacted him on twitter to get more details, and we ended up doing a Skype interview. We talked for about 4 hours, and I really enjoyed talking with him. We talked about trading in general, and he gave me a full rundown of what the new course will be like. I'll have to edit the interview down a bit so you don't have to watch 4 hours of video, but I'll be posting the interview around the time the site goes live.
Anyways I'm not going to give away any details, but I'm quite excited to see how it goes.
I still find it strange that the Manual would be removed from sale on the Jigsaw site quite a while before the new education website comes online. Why have a period of at least a month when it isn't available and you could earn some free money if somebody wanted to buy it? I don't know precisely how long it hasn't been available for, but I emailed Jigsaw after seeing it wasn't on there site anymore and I was wondering why there had been no email regarding a new live quarterly session meeting as it had been almost six months, but have in the meantime received regular emails from Jigsaw about other webinars they are participating in. Jigsaw confirmed they no longer offer the Manual and just said to wait for further announcements.
I also subscribe to the Norden newsletters but had forgotten about that one as from my previous post, I am no longer trying to scalp in that style so it isn't at the front of my mind.
I will though look at the new course when it is available as I am being "grand-fathered" in to it as a Market Making Manual purchaser because I did as I say find the information very interesting and it provided good food for thought.
I also enjoyed the five quarterly video/audio sessions he did which were very entertaining and packed with information. He is a very engaging speaker and I will be interested to hear your interview when you make it available. Do post a link on this website if you can.
You do not win as a trader, you just get to play again the next day. If that game doesn’t appeal to you then you should not trade. Gary Norden
As someone who learned a market making and scalping approach on his own, I was quite unimpressed with Norden's MMM, while also seeing the limited value for someone who knew nothing about these ideas. The fact that he refused to show the style on video was also disappointing. I didn't need it at that point, but from all the ppl who have bought it and have struggled they would have benefitted from the start with actually watching someone perform the techniques in various markets and in various market states.
As much as he claims to be against the guru teachers, it seems like he is now going that route with his new site. The manual is also quite deficient in teaching traders how to handle thin volatile markets, the ones that most smaller account would-be scalpers prefer.
He is also very much disingenuous with labeling what he teaches in his manual as market making, it is as he later says a market making approach to scalping, he doesn't really teach you how to be a manual market maker. Well he kinda does but you need to have some background knowledge and a more evolved idea of what manual marketing making is and isn't. That is something you learn more by doing than talking.
Biggest issue for most traders is that all of this is so much market state dependent.
There's really no one who will turn you into a profitable trader. It is up to you. At most, you should seek methodologies that you understand, breakdown the best practices, handle your core flaws, learn how to adjust to market state changes, know when and when not to apply a technique, and basically go underground staying out of the trading community so that you can figure out what works for you. Also, evolve the products that you trade so once again you can handle market state changes and not get so caught up in what i'm gonna call 'toxic correlation' which makes the most obvious market sometimes unfavorable to trade.
Please no PMs. I do not care to discuss trading 1 on 1.
I'm interested in Gary's new course (The Norden Method) but torn if this type of trading is still valid in today's markets?
The reason for this is lots of "big floor traders" in the pits have struggled to transition to electronic trading! The reason for this (in my opinion) is the creation of algorithms eating the floor traders edge!
I understand Gary has adopted the trading method for today's markets but surely that means its a different method to what was being used in the pits?
Would be way more useful if to hear from more people who have taken the course
My understanding is that in the pits you knew who placed trades for the large institutions so when you saw one of those people coming in you knew they were going to be putting a large order through. And as there was no electronic order book queue, a trader could turn round and front run that order, by immediately hitting in with their order against somebody else who may not have spotted the institutional trader stepping forward amongst all the other action that was going on.
With screen trading there are neither of those advantages.
I bought the Norden course when it was available from Jigsaw. He is now selling it from his own site.
As a Jigsaw purchaser we have access to the introductory Yellow Jacket course (I think that one may be free for people who register on his website), then the Silver Jacket course which is basically the same as the Jigsaw course, with some small improvements for clarity in the layout and text. (Jigsaw purchasers have access as the manual will be being removed from the Jigsaw site in the near future so we still need access to it).
What Jigsaw purchasers don't have anymore is the ongoing quarterly Q&A session videos with Gary as they are now a subscription extra for monthly video meetup sessions and course content updates.
I liked Gary's books and his presentation style and the course content but he does say that he doesn't think everybody can learn to trade and it didn't work for me. I tried the NQ and I could make it work for me for periods of time but in reality the maths wasn't really on my side for long term profitability and when things didn't work they ended badly. Trying to cut losses more quickly reduced win rate, or taking small losing days could end the day too quickly. I tried a few other products like the ES but found I really struggled for fills except on the trades going against me then it was hard to get out without just taking a quick loss which again affected win rate. I also found I really was only profitable in a small window of time and outside of similar market attributes I struggled too.
So for me I couldn't get it to work, but there are other people who say it or similar methods works for them, and logically what he was teaching makes sense unlike a lot of magic indicator, "institutional levels" or special zones type trading education sellers.
I think if you read his book(s), and believe what he says makes sense, and you can afford the course, then give it a go.
I understand the Red Jacket Course is the same as the Silver, but with some additional videos included, from looking at the course content descriptions.
Personally I would go for the videos, but either way I would also pay for the monthly meetings for the additional education and feedback if you do decide to try.
Just my thoughts.
You do not win as a trader, you just get to play again the next day. If that game doesn’t appeal to you then you should not trade. Gary Norden
Appreciate the feedback. What's the overall style of trading? Is its extremely short term trading i.e. 1 or 2 ticks? As i understand Stage 5 is in partnership with much reduced turn around costs.
Yes it is very short term scalping for small moves and in and out very quickly. That can be picked up from his books and the course titles, so not a secret. But I'm not going to say anything else about the actual trading as everybody who bought the course had to sign an NDA saying they wouldn't distribute/teach/pass on the material to other people. I have no problem with that or honouring in general a creator's intellectual copyright.
I was interested to see that Stage 5 were partnering with Gary. I am not sure what their commission structure is but if you are considering a broker, Tradovate are another one to think about with their reduced commission membership packages.
You do not win as a trader, you just get to play again the next day. If that game doesn’t appeal to you then you should not trade. Gary Norden
I have to say I have lost respect for Gary. He first creates an overpriced, low quality product (I have gone through it so my opinion is valid on this) and markets it through Jigsaw.
Then, he decides to create his own website and have all the leads from Jigsaw flow into his website using that low quality product. And now he is charging a more premium version and a much higher quality product. Very unethical and shady if you ask me....