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November 20th, 2015, 11:42 AM
prague, czech republic
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, MT4
Broker: LMAX
Trading: DAX, Gold, Euro
Posts: 1,437 since Feb 2013
Thanks Given: 1,740
Thanks Received: 2,568
Big Mike
Of course it can.
And 24 hours solves nothing. Stocks are halted intraday all the time for news releases.
Mike
Mike, there was no true gap per se, only in perspective of RTH . If someone trades volatile stuff like that especially short, one must have after-hours trading platform access. It was certainly possible to exit should he kept monitoring his position. But I also heard shorts were unobtainable (at Wedbush certainly there were none), it's a wonder such a fine establishment like E-trade had them and plentiful..
Trade to live. Not live to trade.
Can you help answer these questions from other members on NexusFi?
Best Threads (Most Thanked) in the last 7 days on NexusFi
November 20th, 2015, 11:49 AM
Houston, TX
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NinjaTrader TWS Barchart
Broker: IB / IB
Trading: SPY, QQQ
Posts: 419 since Nov 2014
Thanks Given: 474
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xelaar
It would seem like lack of a Stop order . Sad anyway.
November 20th, 2015, 11:51 AM
Manta, Ecuador
Site Administrator Developer Swing Trader
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Broker: IBKR
Trading: Stocks & Futures
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Thanks Received: 101,971
xelaar
Mike, there was no true
gap per se, only in perspective of
RTH .
You are right, I misunderstood and thought it was after the AH session was over.
I checked my data, here it is grouped by last price, first 100 price changes after 4pm
Code
MariaDB [ticks]> select * from KBIO where Date between '2015-11-18 16:00:00' and '2015-11-19' group by Last limit 100;
+-------------------------+---------+----------+---------+---------+---------+--------------+-------------------+-----------------+
| Date | Last | LastSize | Bid | Ask | TickID | BasisForLast | TradeMarketCenter | TradeConditions |
+-------------------------+---------+----------+---------+---------+---------+--------------+-------------------+-----------------+
| 2015-11-18 16:09:41.605 | 2.00000 | 100 | 1.97000 | 2.00000 | 2649070 | E | 11 | 1747 |
| 2015-11-18 16:00:00.051 | 2.01000 | 0 | 2.00000 | 2.01000 | 2645080 | O | 11 | 2E |
| 2015-11-18 16:00:00.173 | 2.07000 | 6504 | 2.00000 | 2.01000 | 2645658 | C | 5 | 4042 |
| 2015-11-18 16:10:10.150 | 2.09000 | 100 | 2.01000 | 2.09000 | 2649193 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:10:22.749 | 2.11000 | 10000 | 2.09000 | 2.11000 | 2649251 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:10:57.618 | 2.20000 | 200 | 2.20000 | 2.27000 | 2649533 | E | 11 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:10:23.508 | 2.24000 | 1 | 2.09000 | 2.27000 | 2649269 | O | 5 | 873D17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:10:34.636 | 2.25000 | 500 | 2.11000 | 2.27000 | 2649360 | E | 25 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:10:23.470 | 2.26000 | 100 | 2.10000 | 2.26000 | 2649252 | E | 26 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:10:23.605 | 2.27000 | 200 | 2.09000 | 2.40000 | 2649277 | E | 5 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:11:21.196 | 2.39000 | 100 | 2.21000 | 2.39000 | 2649656 | E | 26 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:11:50.100 | 2.40000 | 800 | 2.25000 | 2.44000 | 2649783 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:12:11.677 | 2.44000 | 1000 | 2.40000 | 2.44000 | 2649815 | E | 19 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:12:54.915 | 2.58000 | 200 | 2.35000 | 2.75000 | 2650400 | E | 5 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:13:57.086 | 2.70000 | 1000 | 2.65000 | 2.79000 | 2651006 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:12:56.801 | 2.75000 | 100 | 2.70000 | 2.75000 | 2650454 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:12:57.182 | 2.76000 | 300 | 2.80000 | 3.50000 | 2650456 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:13:57.729 | 2.79000 | 150 | 2.65000 | 2.79000 | 2651009 | E | 19 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:13:52.628 | 2.86000 | 100 | 2.70000 | 2.86000 | 2650991 | E | 5 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:02.683 | 2.87000 | 100 | 2.87000 | 2.89000 | 2651021 | E | 5 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:05.637 | 2.89000 | 100 | 2.88000 | 2.89000 | 2651063 | E | 25 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:10.013 | 2.90000 | 200 | 2.89000 | 2.90000 | 2651101 | E | 5 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:12.173 | 2.92000 | 200 | 2.92000 | 2.99000 | 2651125 | E | 5 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:12.177 | 2.97000 | 500 | 2.92000 | 2.99000 | 2651126 | E | 5 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:12.177 | 2.98000 | 100 | 2.92000 | 2.99000 | 2651127 | E | 5 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:12.185 | 2.99000 | 200 | 2.92000 | 2.99000 | 2651131 | E | 26 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:13:15.479 | 3.00000 | 500 | 2.75000 | 2.98000 | 2650573 | E | 11 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:15:51.652 | 3.09000 | 1850 | 3.08000 | 3.25000 | 2652045 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:52.395 | 3.10000 | 3000 | 3.00000 | 3.10000 | 2651558 | E | 26 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:17:34.410 | 3.11000 | 200 | 3.10000 | 3.19000 | 2652433 | E | 5 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:18:44.450 | 3.12000 | 100 | 3.11000 | 3.19000 | 2652663 | E | 26 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:19:13.620 | 3.15000 | 1000 | 3.15000 | 3.21000 | 2652759 | E | 5 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:15:51.649 | 3.17000 | 300 | 3.08000 | 3.25000 | 2652043 | E | 26 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:15:51.652 | 3.18000 | 1000 | 3.08000 | 3.25000 | 2652046 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:15:51.654 | 3.19000 | 500 | 3.08000 | 3.25000 | 2652047 | E | 25 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:16:12.221 | 3.20000 | 400 | 3.05000 | 3.24000 | 2652126 | E | 5 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:16:33.869 | 3.21000 | 100 | 3.20000 | 3.21000 | 2652197 | E | 5 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:15:11.431 | 3.23000 | 200 | 3.10000 | 3.25000 | 2651774 | E | 26 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:16:13.465 | 3.24000 | 100 | 3.20000 | 3.24000 | 2652129 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:15:11.431 | 3.25000 | 550 | 3.10000 | 3.25000 | 2651775 | E | 26 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:16:40.911 | 3.26000 | 1000 | 3.25000 | 3.26000 | 2652238 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:16:13.467 | 3.29000 | 200 | 3.20000 | 3.24000 | 2652131 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:16:40.933 | 3.35000 | 25 | 3.25000 | 3.38000 | 2652239 | O | 5 | 873D17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:19:46.311 | 3.36000 | 200 | 3.35000 | 3.50000 | 2652886 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:14:15.390 | 3.38000 | 100 | 3.00000 | 3.39000 | 2651148 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:16:20.334 | 3.39000 | 500 | 3.20000 | 3.39000 | 2652153 | E | 25 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:19:37.745 | 3.40000 | 100 | 3.35000 | 3.44000 | 2652855 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:19:46.316 | 3.44000 | 500 | 3.35000 | 3.50000 | 2652888 | E | 25 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:19:46.318 | 3.45000 | 500 | 3.35000 | 3.50000 | 2652890 | E | 25 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:19:46.320 | 3.50000 | 1000 | 3.35000 | 3.50000 | 2652891 | E | 26 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:01.642 | 3.60000 | 1000 | 3.60000 | 3.69000 | 2652924 | E | 26 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:04.954 | 3.61000 | 500 | 3.60000 | 3.61000 | 2652927 | E | 5 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:18.944 | 3.65000 | 62 | 3.65000 | 3.75000 | 2652961 | O | 11 | 8717 |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:13.439 | 3.70000 | 100 | 3.63000 | 3.70000 | 2652946 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:16.146 | 3.74000 | 300 | 3.65000 | 3.74000 | 2652955 | E | 25 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:18.893 | 3.75000 | 200 | 3.65000 | 3.75000 | 2652960 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:23.997 | 3.77000 | 100 | 3.76000 | 3.77000 | 2652986 | E | 5 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:37.383 | 3.78000 | 100 | 3.77000 | 3.78000 | 2653015 | E | 5 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:32.981 | 3.79000 | 100 | 3.77000 | 3.84000 | 2653010 | E | 5 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:27.880 | 3.84000 | 150 | 3.75000 | 3.84000 | 2652996 | E | 25 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:21.969 | 3.89000 | 500 | 3.75000 | 3.94000 | 2652985 | E | 25 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:38.567 | 3.91000 | 100 | 3.84000 | 3.94000 | 2653021 | E | 5 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:24.899 | 3.93000 | 100 | 3.76000 | 3.93000 | 2652988 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:38.729 | 3.94000 | 500 | 3.85000 | 3.99000 | 2653022 | E | 25 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:43.591 | 3.98000 | 200 | 3.88000 | 3.99000 | 2653047 | E | 26 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:38.875 | 3.99000 | 100 | 3.85000 | 3.99000 | 2653024 | E | 25 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:43.614 | 4.00000 | 200 | 3.88000 | 4.00000 | 2653060 | E | 26 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:47.469 | 4.01000 | 100 | 4.01000 | 4.16000 | 2653073 | E | 5 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:47.465 | 4.02000 | 400 | 4.01000 | 4.16000 | 2653072 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:55.278 | 4.05000 | 25 | 4.05000 | 4.25000 | 2653110 | O | 11 | 873D17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:49.982 | 4.14000 | 100 | 4.05000 | 4.16000 | 2653074 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:55.274 | 4.15000 | 75 | 4.05000 | 4.25000 | 2653109 | O | 11 | 8717 |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:49.982 | 4.16000 | 100 | 4.05000 | 4.16000 | 2653075 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:51.651 | 4.17000 | 200 | 4.16000 | 4.17000 | 2653083 | E | 25 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:50.945 | 4.19000 | 100 | 4.05000 | 4.19000 | 2653078 | E | 5 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:43.977 | 4.20000 | 100 | 4.00000 | 4.20000 | 2653062 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:28.502 | 4.21000 | 300 | 4.20000 | 4.21000 | 2653328 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:31.790 | 4.22000 | 100 | 4.21000 | 4.22000 | 2653349 | E | 25 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:22:14.758 | 4.23000 | 50 | 4.22000 | 4.30000 | 2653598 | O | 11 | 8717 |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:53.192 | 4.24000 | 100 | 4.16000 | 4.19000 | 2653095 | E | 25 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:53.720 | 4.25000 | 500 | 4.16000 | 4.19000 | 2653102 | E | 26 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:31.621 | 4.25500 | 100 | 4.21000 | 4.22000 | 2653347 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:31.622 | 4.26000 | 100 | 4.21000 | 4.22000 | 2653348 | E | 5 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:47.243 | 4.27000 | 50 | 4.24000 | 4.31000 | 2653417 | O | 11 | 8717 |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:34.337 | 4.28000 | 100 | 4.21000 | 4.29000 | 2653357 | E | 5 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:34.347 | 4.29000 | 300 | 4.21000 | 4.29000 | 2653358 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:33.055 | 4.30000 | 200 | 4.29000 | 4.30000 | 2653352 | E | 5 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:27.666 | 4.31000 | 500 | 4.30000 | 4.31000 | 2653312 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:40.859 | 4.32000 | 100 | 4.31000 | 4.32000 | 2653384 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:40.859 | 4.33000 | 100 | 4.31000 | 4.32000 | 2653383 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:51.434 | 4.34000 | 100 | 4.32000 | 4.33000 | 2653441 | E | 25 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:59.618 | 4.35000 | 200 | 4.32000 | 4.37000 | 2653502 | E | 5 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:25.943 | 4.36000 | 100 | 4.52000 | 4.53000 | 2653309 | E | 5 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:58.264 | 4.37000 | 1000 | 4.36000 | 4.40000 | 2653483 | E | 5 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:23:06.885 | 4.38000 | 200 | 4.32000 | 4.40000 | 2653969 | E | 5 | 173D |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:56.971 | 4.39000 | 500 | 4.04000 | 4.41000 | 2653120 | E | 25 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:21:55.967 | 4.40000 | 100 | 4.38000 | 4.39000 | 2653476 | E | 12 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:56.973 | 4.41000 | 100 | 4.04000 | 4.41000 | 2653121 | E | 11 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:20:56.976 | 4.44000 | 500 | 4.50000 | 4.55000 | 2653123 | E | 25 | 17 |
| 2015-11-18 16:23:14.153 | 4.46000 | 300 | 4.40000 | 4.47000 | 2654033 | E | 5 | 173D |
+-------------------------+---------+----------+---------+---------+---------+--------------+-------------------+-----------------+
100 rows in set (0.00 sec)
So it seems he had a) no stop and/or b) didn't specify his stop could be filled on AH exchanges
Mike
November 20th, 2015, 12:38 PM
Chicago, IL
Legendary Market Chamois
Experience: None
Platform: NT8,NT7,TWS
Broker: InteractiveBrokers, S5T, IQFeed
Trading: The one I'm creating in the present....Index Futures mini/micro, ZF
Posts: 2,311 since Nov 2011
Thanks Given: 7,341
Thanks Received: 4,518
Unfortunately there is a great deal to learn regarding trading and this poor guy has now experienced the immense impact of his want for knowledge in as real a way as possible. I feel extremely grateful to have a small measure of education in this field so I am able to protect myself from myself. As I see it: risk management, position sizing per account size, choosing tradable instruments with long term research and relative stability in mind, comparatively small consistent trades set up opportunities over the big picture which in turn enable outsized gains through position management, trading for home runs in and of itself is counterproductive… are among some of the gems I have unearthed along my journey.
Ron
...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
B uy L ow A nd S ell H igh (read left to right or right to left....lol)
November 20th, 2015, 01:23 PM
Minneapolis+ MN / USA
Posts: 32 since Jan 2011
Thanks Given: 1
Thanks Received: 57
Of all days to log in to see whats up. I check this site out maybe 2 times a yr. This guy just bought himself a Harvard education. Never ever hold anything over night. But I'll wager he wont learn this simple rule until he wipes his account out again. What the heck was he trading anyway? This is a business, not Las Vegas. I suggest he never trade again and continue doing what ever he was doing to have $130,000 at age 32.
November 20th, 2015, 11:28 PM
NY, USA
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT/IB TWS
Broker: IB
Trading: ES
Posts: 951 since Sep 2009
Thanks Given: 813
Thanks Received: 444
I am confused. Shouldn't etrade liquidate his shorts before any margin call hits him?
November 20th, 2015, 11:36 PM
Murrells Inlet SC
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Trading: ES, CL, ETFs
Posts: 9,159 since Dec 2012
Thanks Given: 9,765
Thanks Received: 26,036
jz166
I am confused. Shouldn't etrade liquidate his shorts before any
margin call hits him?
Nope- that's what the margin call does- tells you to bring more money to stay in the game
November 20th, 2015, 11:40 PM
Murrells Inlet SC
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Tradestation
Trading: ES, CL, ETFs
Posts: 9,159 since Dec 2012
Thanks Given: 9,765
Thanks Received: 26,036
shanmugs
I cant find 1 share of this stock to short. There is none to borrow anywhere. I cant understand how Etrade let him short 9000 shares unless Etrade took the other side of his trade. This whole story sounds bogus to me.
I came here to post the same thing- its been in my mind all day. No BD I have worked for would ever allow one to short penny stocks. I was wondering if the world of $2 online BDs had got into this game- and somehow had these to loan- Sompin' fishey going on here...
November 21st, 2015, 01:35 AM
Atlanta GA USA
Posts: 285 since Aug 2013
Thanks Given: 70
Thanks Received: 271
Sounds like he was following Timothy Sykes with shorting the low cost stock through Etrade. He's all about shorting penny stocks.
I feel for the guy, but don't go online and expect others to pay for your stupid mistake.
November 21st, 2015, 02:39 AM
prague, czech republic
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT7, MT4
Broker: LMAX
Trading: DAX, Gold, Euro
Posts: 1,437 since Feb 2013
Thanks Given: 1,740
Thanks Received: 2,568
emini2000
Sounds like he was following Timothy Sykes with shorting the low cost stock through Etrade. He's all about shorting penny stocks.
I feel for the guy, but don't go online and expect others to pay for your stupid mistake.
From what I read in Sykes book he lived by the screen including ah and bh. This guy put a short and went to a bar. The problem was not the low price but just 4M shares float.
Trade to live. Not live to trade.
Last Updated on August 31, 2017