syxforex 

Too big too fail = largesse ... what will they do if this bubble bursts? They will get another trillion, guaranteed.

@sysforex I think you are missing my point and reading my posts out of context. I think we both agree Quantitative Easing and bailing out bankers has been apart of digging the debt hole.

Whether it is runaway bankrupt entitlement programs or printing of money by the FED reality is they are both digging a hole that can't be taxed out of.

The article I referenced does a good job of pointing out two different visions of the United States.

I agree with your liquidcci, painful cuts are necessary. However, I just want to point out where the lions share of entitlement and welfare is going, not to foodstamps, not even close. Those peopes are small enough to fail..

Just my thoughts. It's frustrating to see the Romney campaign care more about the leaked video than keeping his message going. (What about something like Herman Cain's "9-9-9" plan about now, or are they saving it later for some timing around debate time? ) There are still little details about how Romney as President can help the economy and reduce government spending. And it seems like this has been going on for a long time re: lack of details and coasting along trying to get by without details just as long as the party candidate wins. Maybe they all know it's going down the cliff anyways. re: taxes. Completely agree, it's mostly the upper middle class shouldering the burden but yearly tax revenue can hardly make a dent in the overall deficit spending. While those rich enough (remember, "corporations are "people" too!") can more effectively loophole and tax-evade offshore in tax haven islands. Almost like the upper middle class are duped into it too and eventually they will also fail to progress in mobility as the dollar weakens further leaving only the "1%" to benefit at all in this climate. (edit: looking at the "1%" figure > $350k; thought it was more like > $2mil)

1% of something is better than 99% of nothing...

Cloudy 

Just my thoughts. It's frustrating to see the Romney campaign care more about the leaked video than keeping his message going. (What about something like Herman Cain's "9-9-9" plan about now, or are they saving it later for some timing around debate time? ) There are still little details about how Romney as President can help the economy and reduce government spending. And it seems like this has been going on for a long time re: lack of details and coasting along trying to get by without details just as long as the party candidate wins. Maybe they all know it's going down the cliff anyways. re: taxes. Completely agree, it's mostly the upper middle class shouldering the burden but yearly tax revenue can hardly make a dent in the overall deficit spending. While those rich enough (remember, "corporations are "people" too!") can more effectively loophole and offshore in tax haven islands. Almost like the upper middle class are duped into it too and eventually they will also fail to progress in mobility as the dollar weakens further leaving only the "1%" to benefit at all in this climate.

liquidcci 

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” The republic cannot survive so much dependency Commentary: What the 47% who rely on government must know

Would hope democracy could be permanently sustained by a wised-up citizenry. Unfortunately California is practically a prime textbook example of the quote and held hostage. Illinois too. (The idiots at KFI640AM John and Ken show helped shoot down Meg Whitman's chances against Jerry Brown. & the "City of Bell" scandal, the biggest example of a tiny city council swipe in the U.S. Maybe a contributing factor where most of the "citizens" were more "literate" in spanish and little awareness. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Bell_scandal https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130108851?storyId=130108851?storyId=130108851?storyId=130108851 )

some websites of each side:
https://arc.asm.ca.gov/member/37/?p=custom&pid=229
https://www.californiaprogressreport.com/site/dont-blame-california-public-employees

Cloudy 

Would hope democracy could be permanently sustained by a wised-up citizenry. Unfortunately California is practically a textbook example of the quote and held hostage. Illinois too. (The idiots at KFI640AM John and Ken show helped shoot down Meg Whitman's chances against Jerry Brown. )

@Cloudy that is my hope to. That is where the middle class better realize they are being lied to when are told can continue on our current spending path and they will never have taxes raised. I would say the progressive liberals think the middle class is under taxed although they will not admit it because they know would not be elected. They need much more than the 250k and above crowd to expand their vision of a socialist empire.

Has America been so dumbed down that people can't see in November if they vote for Obama they vote for their own demise?

Carl Marx said the end destination is communism, and that's why Lenin decided to just go straight there... The end destination may not be communism but a combination of capitalism and socialism and that's not going away..

Everything needs to strike a balance but we need to keep some things in context:
- although taxes has been growing for the rich, the gap between the rich and poor has be growing and most from the wealthy getting wealthier..
- in addition, the amount of the super rich has also been growing in that environment, so the high taxes is not having an impact on the wealthy getting wealthier so burdening the poor with more taxes is not the answer
- we can reduce social programs that makes it easier for the poor to enter the middle class but how much are we saving from our deficit?
- how much is the bank bail outs contributing to our deficits and how is it impacting the economy? Its basically bailing out the rich so they can keep receiving big bonuses.. It may save jobs and prevent further meltdown but the same can be said about many social programs..
- the wealthy and powerful has always been kissing each other's "buttock" and everyone turns a blind eye to the disadvantaged when a nation is actually built from the bottom up and not the top down.. Why was the US so strong in the past? It had a mass middle class in the baby boomers..
- The US had almost no global competition in the past since most of the world's infrastructure was destroyed after ww2 and we were providers for the world, but now the US has to compete with cheap labor from India and China and developed worlds where their economy has rebuilt.. The past is gone forever and the world is changing.. We can never go back to the past because the context has changed dramatically..
- In the end, if we want this nation to be great for the future, we need to grow the middle class.. I don't pretend to have the answers to do that but anything that moves in that direction is more likely the on the right path.. So social programs should be managed better and thought thru well but should not be eliminated to be more "fair" to the wealthy.. The wealthy are doing just fine and better than fine even in this environment.. Everyone is looking out for them..

liquidcci 

@sysforex I think you are missing my point and reading my posts out of context. I think we both agree Quantitative Easing and bailing out bankers has been apart of digging the debt hole. Whether it is runaway bankrupt entitlement programs or printing of money by the FED reality is they are both digging a hole that can't be taxed out of. The article I referenced does a good job of pointing out two different visions of the United States.

Didn't I hear that AIG, GM and Chrysler repaid their TARP to the government and that the government actually made a profit on those deals?

Source: CNBC And Yahoo Finance Readers REALLY Liked Mitt Romney's Comments - Business Insider



Mike

and there is nothing in the world that could make me less likely to vote against President Obama...nothing