@TraderMich LMAX CFDs?

spideysteve 

That’s crazy. Somehow reminds me of when Venezuela was going through a big currency crisis, so they introduced the “strong Bolivar” which was supposed to be .. stronger I guess. But really, that was just a shell game with rampant inflation.

It's actually quite common to do that. That's actually exactly how Eurodollars work (LIBOR initerest rate not EUR:USD) where the quoted futures prices is 100 minus the interest rate.

For everybody predicting the end of oil, CLZ30 settled $54 today. Could be a good sale?

TraderMich 

Just for clarification here. Oil (US Crude Oil Spot) has not traded negative, lowest value has been just below 10 USD (this time around) - It was "only" the future contracts that traded sub zero.

Just for clarification ... you do realize CL, which is what I posted, is the futures and not spot?

SMCJB 

@TraderMich LMAX CFDs? It's actually quite common to do that. That's actually exactly how Eurodollars work (LIBOR initerest rate not EUR:USD) where the quoted futures prices is 100 minus the interest rate. For everybody predicting the end of oil, CLZ30 settled $54 today. Could be a good sale?

$53.95 to be exact but there are a helluva lot of trading days make that trading years left till CLZ30 settles for good.

TraderMich 

Recieved this from LMAX today - Plaese note this is regarding Oil Spot prices NOT future/dericiate pricing:

"Spot" oil prices are typically just calendar month averages of futures prices (with there also being a transport/grade differential for different physical markets). It looks like LMAX just uses a rolling average of the prompt two months for CL on NYMEX.

SMCJB 

@TraderMich, @SunTrader, @spideysteve, @GFIs1 any chance we can move the Green discussion to a more relevant thread? (Don't forget half of the US thinks Global warming is a liberal conspiracy) Pathetic. CME/NYMEX have increased margins 3 times in 6 days. Let them do there hjob.

They are.

NotKenGriffin 

"Spot" oil prices are typically just calendar month averages of futures prices (with there also being a transport/grade differential for different physical markets). It looks like LMAX just uses a rolling average of the prompt two months for CL on NYMEX.

LMAX do not use any thing - LMAX works as an exchange i.e the pricing is based on bit and ask. - It is spot oil that is the basis - The Cl future and other crude oil futures are deriviate of spot oil not the other way around.

The same way ES future is a deriviate of the S&P 500 Index, so Es is following the index and not the other way around (In general!!!)

SunTrader 

Just for clarification ... you do realize CL, which is what I posted, is the futures and not spot?

Yes exactly - That is what I am trying to say CL is not oil CL is an Oil Future and spot oil is the actual oil abd spot oil never went negative - so far

So when we are debating negaive oil prices that happen this week we need to be clear what we talk about - The oil future or the actual oil price.

Spot oil went down to approx 10 usd the Oil future went negative due to an long squeez

TraderMich 

LMAX do not use any thing - LMAX works as an exchange i.e the pricing is based on bit and ask. - It is spot oil that is the basis - The Cl future and other crude oil futures are deriviate of spot oil not the other way around.

Nope. Oil is unique in that there is a dynamic feedback loop between the spot and the futures markets because of CMA pricing (at least in the US).

LMAX Guide for Spot Crude Oil: "The spot price for oil is derived from a weighted average between the 1st and 2nd month Future Contracts and follows the business day convention from New York."

TraderMich 

That is what I am trying to say CL is not oil CL is an Oil Future and spot oil is the actual oil abd spot oil never went negative

I didn't see it, so don't know, but are you saying that Argus's WTI Assessment on Monday was above $10 and that there was a $47 difference between the CL Settlement and the Argus Assessment?

And you keep saying Spot Oil. I assume you mean Spot WTI. There are dozens of different US crudes and several of them have traded below $10 and some negative already.

TraderMich 

Yes exactly - That is what I am trying to say CL is not oil CL is an Oil Future and spot oil is the actual oil abd spot oil never went negative - so far So when we are debating negaive oil prices that happen this week we need to be clear what we talk about - The oil future or the actual oil price. Spot oil went down to approx 10 usd the Oil future went negative due to an long squeez

I understand except you referenced my post about the futures to point out it was only the futures.