feinbern 

I have to say that I dont really agree with this whole idea that "you'd better beat the S&P or go find something else" and that somehow if you eke out a few points over the S&P then you're a successful trader. Kind of a trite comparison (with all due respect to goodoboy). Of course people in the industry (ie who actually work on wall street for big institutions etc) will benchmark themselves this way as their organisations are likely managing huge portfolios where a small tweak may result in millions/billions of rotation but you and me are not in this situation. My view is that if you cannot significantly beat that benchmark trading independently (ie without the limitations attached to trading/investing huge portfolios) then you should probably try something else. On an average year trading independently you should probably be making more than 10 points on your money or else you'd need a hell of a lot of money to get by (goodoboy gave the example of having a million dollar portfolio to generate 100k per year - not many people will have that amount of capital at least to start off with). I guess my point is here that someone who knows how to use options effectively can likely generate more than 10 points per year on his/her margin (clearly not possible for an institution prohibited from investing in illiquid securities or options unless for hedging purposes). Anyway I'll leave that one to the experts...

Yeup. Great points.

It's true that these are apples and oranges comparisons.

We as retail traders don't benchmark ourselves against the indexes (although we should know what kind of average vs just holding an index or cash for that matter we are achieving)

The institutional world IS based on the benchmarks such as the S&P or Bonds or different asset classes and/or hedges against inflation.

These are again not even comparable.

They work on the portfolio level and asset allocation can have as much of an impact or more than the individual securities they invest in.

They are looking for a return comensurate with the risk to achieve a desired return.

We are NOT talking only about returns we are talking RISK ADJUSTED RETURNS and the return they can achieve with the smallest amount of risk to the portfolio to again achieve a certain level of return.

Lastly %10 a year on your money is a weird way to say this as it's usually an average. Some years are better some are worse.

Now there are alot of blanket statements and generalizations in there but I think the point was made.

And if course the goal we all want is great RISK ADJUSTED RETURNS. At least as retail traders we have agility on our side!

Sent using the NexusFi mobile app

Saw this thread pop up in my emails the other day. Really didn't want to reply, but thought very long and hard about it, and finally.... I realised I do want to say something.

I have been trading for 13 years.

All I can tell you is the money isn't even the tip of the iceberg. In fact it doesn't really matter at all. The structure of the things you wrote, the things you said and the way you said them tells me where you are in your journey - you have a very long hard road ahead of you, and I think taking some time to reflect on it would be a good use of your time.

You're at a fork right now and if you truly want trading to be your path then I can only tell you that it will cost you more than money. Much much more.

In many ways you're lucky because it's not too late to seal it off and go do something else instead.

Only you can decide.

Couple of truisms I've picked up along the way that I can offer you:

1. No one gives a shit when you lose money and no one applauds when you win. (Human beings don't like that much, we aren't programmed for it)

2. Whatever you are not changing, you are choosing. (Read that again)

I wish you well.

So many great posts on this topic.

Instead of comments from me, I will post a video from F.I.O contributor Lancelottrader aka Stranahan Trading.

I just came across this one today as I have been watching with interest his thread "The Crude Dude Oil Trading System". He has now switched over to the NQ.

Anyway, this is his first recorded video. It is excellent and he shared his own struggles and how he fixed them.

It's called "How I overcame my trading mistakes".

goodoboy 

LOL, that is the because blew who started the forum thread is not real. It is called trading marketing to capture the attention of eyes for ad clicks and self promotion. Keep in mind, blew never posted any broker accounts or trading records to prove he his losses and wins. My input, unless you showing broker accounts or trading records, you lying and guessing.

goodoboy 

The only way you know if a trader is not blowing smoke, is broker records and track records. Everything else someone has to say is completely a lie and guessing. No Proof = Lying.

Moderator Notice @goodoboy, Please respect the forum rules on civility and being respectful of other members, and do not make accusations of wrongdoing toward other members. The statement that another member is lying is not acceptable practice in this forum. If you feel that something is wrong, please report it to the mods to deal with instead of taking it upon yourself to correct it or dole out justice. Also, please understand that while you may insist on a vendor providing you with acceptable proof of the their product before you buy it, no member of this forum is obligated to provide you with broker statements or other personal financial records, which are their business alone. Demands that they provide you with anything at all are out of place, as is any statement that anyone making a post is lying or trying to sell you something. This forum provides a positive and collegial atmosphere of discussion. When you express an overall negative attitude toward other members, which you have in other posts with your demands for proof that they are not lying, you are in violation of our rules. The rules requiring civility will be enforced. The two above posts have been deleted, as violating forum policy on rudeness. Bob.

Kudos for being willing to expose your ego to the whiles of anonymous strangers. Luckily here they're a supportive group.

You've handed over $60k for some lessons.

Here a few of them:

1) You can make money doing this.

2) You have the power to wreck yourself and your account.

3) You're an emotional/egotistical trader.

Add others as you see fit.

Trading is a three-legged chair: Method, Mind and Money (Management). You need to focus on the latter 2 for a while. Van Tharp and Mark Douglas changed my life and trading; they will yours too.

Your wife should not be able to know whether or not you've had a good day. Besides, who needs that pressure?

I've done what you've described thrice. I'm a slow learner. Hopefully you're better than me?

Maverick

goodoboy 

P.S. I am non-profitable day trader and probably should not be giving trading advice. So take my advice as such.

Ha ha ha!

That IS good!

mluka 

Ha ha ha! That IS good!

LMAO, its the truth. And if everyone makes that disclaimer, it keeps things simple.

But, hey, simple is the new complex these days.

Disclaimer: I am non-profitable day trader and I probably should not be giving trading advice. So take my advice as such.

I just read the first post of this thread.

Surely there are some guidelines in the forum about using four-letter words that start with s and f ???

The rules are basically be polite, friendly, helpful. We are adults, many of whom do use colorful language. Especially in stressful times, which trading can bring forward...

But of course, if someone goes overboard then it's not welcome.

If your are offended by four letter words, your can also use the ignore feature.

Bubba1 

I just read the first post of this thread. Surely there are some guidelines in the forum about using four-letter words that start with s and f ???

Sent using the NexusFi mobile app

I don't know about all the features on the site. Does the ignore feature filter the foul language before it is read? I am an adult , going on 70 and still find it offensive. Maybe I will grow up sometime soon.