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Institutional levels used by professionals


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Institutional levels used by professionals

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  #1 (permalink)
 
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 aligator 
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Any one knows what the institutional levels for futures are that the professionals use for trading? They can't be pivots or previous day/week OHLC since evryone has access to these numbers.

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 kbit 
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I don't have an exact answer for this but you can bet they do look at daily and weekly charts and know what your looking at and know where your likely to put your stops and take advantage of that frequently. I've heard that on some instruments the 20,50 and 200 day m.a. plays a role..beyond that I don't know

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 dutchbookmaker 
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Amazon.com: Paul Wilmott Introduces Quantitative Finance (9780470319581): Paul Wilmott: Books

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kbit View Post
I don't have an exact answer for this but you can bet they do look at daily and weekly charts and know what your looking at and know where your likely to put your stops and take advantage of that frequently. I've heard that on some instruments the 20,50 and 200 day m.a. plays a role..beyond that I don't know


out of curiousity, it might be interesting to ask, exactly what is your background in the trading arena?

most persons, sophisticated retail investors, never even comprehend that the markets are gamed, and casino'd,

certainly QA's know this, because their applied mathematical methods are doing just that, replacing investing with gambling and odds brokering.

its rare to find the two married in one person, such as myself, you, other commentators on this particular thread, and a few other select contributors on futures.io (formerly BMT)

so, KBIT, what's your background?

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 dutchbookmaker 
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most persons, sophisticated retail investors, never even comprehend that the markets are gamed, and casino'd,


To say the markets are "gamed" is completely absurd and shows no understanding of what is meant by the term. Computers aren't even powerful enough to deal with the game tree of heads up no limit holdem, let alone anything even close to a double auction market with an unknowable number of participants.
There is no point in talking about levels as if there is one strategy that is being implemented. Even the greenest retail trader has multiple strategies and prices that cause him to react if he is conscious of it or not.

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 trendisyourfriend 
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aligator View Post
Any one knows what the institutional levels for futures are that the professionals use for trading? They can't be pivots or previous day/week OHLC since evryone has access to these numbers.

Fulcrum trader uses cumulative delta to find significant levels of resting inventory so i suppose you could look in that direction to find what levels big players are likely to use to conduct some business.

JS Product Overview sells some pivot levels which may be act as key areas to for doing business.

You still can trade effectively from an intraday perspective without knowing any of these numbers in advance as price action exhibits some typical patterns around these numbers anyway. If you know ahead of time that 1300 is an institutional level on the ES what will you do more with this information that you could not do without it ? Unless you use these numbers to put resting orders there ahead of time i don't see why you would want to focus your attention on these numbers. New levels are created every day.

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The term "Institutional" is very broad which can be broken down into many sub-levels such as Commercial Hedgers, Hedge Funds, Pension Funds, Mutual Funds (yes, they do use futures), etc., etc.

Having been on the "institutional" side for my entire career, I can tell you that there's no common indicator between them as many have different objectives and styles in managing money. I will tell you my firm often used the simple moving averages of 10, 20, 50, 100, 150 and 200 and on the daily chart interval in addition to some other proprietary tools as a basis of evaluating over all market trend. Also, for intra-day analysis, the VWAP is a highly regarded indicator that is used.

Cheers,
PB

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dutchbookmaker View Post
To say the markets are "gamed" is completely absurd and shows no understanding of what is meant by the term. Computers aren't even powerful enough to deal with the game tree of heads up no limit holdem, let alone anything even close to a double auction market with an unknowable number of participants.
There is no point in talking about levels as if there is one strategy that is being implemented. Even the greenest retail trader has multiple strategies and prices that cause him to react if he is conscious of it or not.

Interesting point of view.

The markets are indeed gamed. The survival of liquidity providers hinges on their ability to do this. I am not sure why software needs to be involved - that is a separate issue.

Some people fall into the camp of markets being pure and mathematical. Enter Goldman Sachs. Unlimited funds, unlimited risk. People like this make money every day from the markets. It's a transfer of money from retail traders to professional traders. When it is so blindingly obvious to you, me, everybody where Joe Retail has his stops - the question has to be - why WOULDN'T someone game the system if they had sufficient funds?

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aligator View Post
Any one knows what the institutional levels for futures are that the professionals use for trading? They can't be pivots or previous day/week OHLC since evryone has access to these numbers.

What's your reason for asking?

Do you think there's a 'semi-secret' set of numbers that 'professionals' club together and watch. Do you think that knowing these numbers would suddenly make you profitable?

Serious questions.

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