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Old school trader,using end of day data only, Anyone else?


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Old school trader,using end of day data only, Anyone else?

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  #1 (permalink)
 north88 
Edmonton Alberta, Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: TWS& Multicharts
Trading: Futures
Posts: 10 since Mar 2015
Thanks Given: 3
Thanks Received: 1

Hello,

I've recently returned to futures trading but have always kept an eye on some markets and even paper traded once in a while.

Holy crap a lot has changed......these new trading platforms have WAY too many bells and whistles IMO.

When I trade I'm only interested in what the market has shown at the end of the day(after market closes) This is when I do all my chart studying, using daily, weekly and monthly. This is when I place a trade if I see some thing interesting. I need to place a simple contingency orders(OTO). That way if my main DAY order is filled the next day after the market opens, it will automatically trigger my STOP GTC order to be in place to protect me if my order fills but the market turns and goes against me exceeding my risk tolerance. If things go in my favour I will then move my STOP day by day to lock in profits. This is what works for me.

Here's some questions& comments: Does that sound like rocket science to anyone? Why is it so hard to find a platform that will do this quickly and easily? The only platform I've found that actually has OTO listed in the order entry menu is Firetip. However I've used this platform and it glitched a few times(leaving me in the market without me knowing I had an open order fortunately for me it was moving in my favour) So I closed my account, it could have just as easily been going against me and wiped me out .

I'm not interested in: auto trailing stops,simulated stops,,alerts, advanced trade management strategies,automated trading strategies,live streaming this and live streaming that, Depth of market and the list could go on for 2 hours of reading.

It's crazy.......Reliability and simplicity does it exist?

Is there anyone like me left out there anymore and what do you use? A broker LOL?

Thanks for your input

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  #3 (permalink)
 MacroNinja 
Buenos Aires Argentina
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: NT, MT4, Sierra
Trading: S&P, Bonds, Crude, FX
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I don't see why I wouldn't be technically possible, but it begs the question as to why you would only want end of day data when you can usually get most of the live data free as a retail "non-pro" status trader.

Also, since you can't manage the stops live in the markets, seems like you would want to give serious consideration into expressing your trades on the options markets legging into iron condors, straddles, and the like.

I think this also presumes having an extreme amount of patience where maybe 80% of the trades will be missed because price is too far away from an ideal entry zone by the time you are able to act on the position, which is fine assuming you aren't trying to chase the markets at bad price and just accept the fact that lots of trades will be omitted.

Finally, I think it's interesting to note that a trader I'm familiar with associated with an education institution tried to create an "end of day" only model to sell to the retail traders. The model showed okay profits 2 out of 3 months in the last quarter of 2014 before completely getting pummeled and losing all profits in the last month of the quarter because the risk management was completely out of whack. Then when the model got tweaked to more conservative settings Q1 of 2015, only I think 3 trades in total have been filled in the last 35 trading days.

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  #4 (permalink)
 north88 
Edmonton Alberta, Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: TWS& Multicharts
Trading: Futures
Posts: 10 since Mar 2015
Thanks Given: 3
Thanks Received: 1

Hello, thanks for your reply,

I guess in reality "Live streaming Data" is the same thing as "end of day data" after the market is closed is it not? For example after a particular market is closed for the day any data provider live or not, will show the open, high and close of the day because that's the last piece of data available for that market because that's where it left off, and it is now closed.
Yes there are plenty of places to get this data for free, and I do.

As for risk management, there are plenty of markets to trade at the end of the day that fall into a good or reasonable risk/reward ratio for trading. If they don't, I don't trade them....yes it requires patience.....only the best setups are traded, and I'm not always in the market. Not being in the market is a very important position, more important than being in the market with a losing trade. Agreed?

LOL, as for your friends model....that's almost funny....you can't create a model for common sense. It's called free will and placing trades on what you see.

I'm going back to Firetip...I'll just have to be more cautious when placing trades , to ensure trades are being placed correctly, even if it means calling the order desk to double check. I can also set up alerts to my cell phone if my entry day order price has been hit during the day, then I can log on and check to ensure I've been filled and my GTC stop is in the Waiting position, to be executed if the market goes against me.

Have a good one!

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 xiaosi 
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
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Broker: MacQuarie Futures/AMP Clearing/CQG
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EOD trading is alive and well. Nothing like ignoring the noise and just trading based on the daily or weekly price action. I use Premium Data with Amibroker for visualizing my markets and execute trades with an online broker, mainly because it reduces commission drag...Its just tools of the trade, they make you more competitive as they reduce cost.

XS

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  #6 (permalink)
 north88 
Edmonton Alberta, Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: TWS& Multicharts
Trading: Futures
Posts: 10 since Mar 2015
Thanks Given: 3
Thanks Received: 1

Hello XS,

Thanks for your reply......by online broker do you mean platform? Or you pick-up the phone and call them?
How do you actually get your trades into position after hours online with a broker?

Thanks for the clarification!!
Glad to here EOD trading is still alive and well!

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 deaddog 
Prince George BC Canada
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Experience: Advanced
Platform: National Bank Direct
Broker: NBD/BMO/Questrade
Trading: Stocks
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North88:

IB is a Canadian broker that will allow you to place GTC orders with an attached bracket order for exits that are easily amended.

I can enter a stop limit order to get into a trade and amend the bracket order or stop order with a couple mouse clicks or by dragging and dropping on the chart.

"The days when I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days" RW Hubbard
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  #8 (permalink)
 
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 mattz   is a Vendor
 
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@north88

I like your approach to the markets, and certainly there is nothing wrong with using EOD, and a broker. You raised some really interesting issues, and I wanted to share some thoughts with you.

One of the earliest platforms that I have used was LindXpress, and that was a kickass platform (about a decade ago).
Do you believe that their source code was better than many of the platforms that are offered today? I used to leave this platform open for days on my PC and it never went down, and I mean never. Sadly with sale of Lind to MF, and the collapse of MF, LindXpress was out. Why do I mention source code? The code that a platform is written on provides the stability of the platform. In essence, many traders fail to realize that their platform of choice could be written a “dysfunctional” code, and the more features added, add-ons, etc are being added the more unstable it becomes.

All the bells and whistles added today are for those use automation and day trading and as such they require functunalities and timeliness to accommodate such trading. However, just because platforms have all these features does not mean that traders added a set of skills or performance.

Further, there is a group of those that I consider fascinated with trading and markets. Namely, they code, backtest, paper trade etc but they do not trade, so all these functunalities add a purpose to their on going research. However, it does not mean they would add value to someone who trades live funds. In fact, you would find that most long-term traders with sustainability use simple logic and might utilize 10% of the platform capability in terms of features.

Many do not necessarily choose platforms based on their needs, rather the "What is the most popular?". Sometimes with our potential customers, the question I am asked is "why do most use?" and I always divert to their individual needs and the importance of choosing on individual basis.

Lastly, I am not familiar with the software you use, but if you want simple down to earth stable platforms: R Trader Platform by Rithmic or CQG Trader.

I wanted to thank you for raising the issue of simplicity and platforms.
To be honest, I was hoping that someone one day would address this.

Best of luck!

There is a substantial risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of future results.


Matt

Trading futures and options involves substantial risk of loss and is not suitable for all investors. Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. You may lose more than your initial investment. All posts are opinions and do not claim to be facts. Please conduct your own due diligence. Use only Risk capital when trading Futures.
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  #9 (permalink)
 north88 
Edmonton Alberta, Canada
 
Experience: Beginner
Platform: TWS& Multicharts
Trading: Futures
Posts: 10 since Mar 2015
Thanks Given: 3
Thanks Received: 1

Thanks for your reply.....what platform is it that your using with IB?

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 deaddog 
Prince George BC Canada
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north88 View Post
Thanks for your reply.....what platform is it that your using with IB?

IBs Trader Work Station.

It is all you need to make end of day trades.

"The days when I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days" RW Hubbard
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