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Oil price negative?


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Oil price negative?

  #61 (permalink)
 
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  #62 (permalink)
 
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Big Mike View Post

Fact that it plunged so quick to -20 makes me wonder.
I'd be laughing my pants off if it turns out that some algo's and HFT were not adapted to negative rates and traded this as if it were positive numbers.

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  #63 (permalink)
 
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Pa Dax View Post
This might be a tough fight. From what I saw yesterday using IB TWS was that the charts weren't working but I still had bid and ask prices (negative). I still have them now. Their contracts and agreements on futures trading are pretty solid.
I get an e-mail from IB every time I trade a new contract that the contract description is misleading and that May expires in April. I also get a notification if I hold positions close to expiry and that IB does not support physical delivery and will close out automatically.
However, most importantly, IB wants to see that you tried everything you could to get out of this position and the audit trail of TWS will be required (does the mobile app have audit trail btw?) to see if you tried market orders, whether or not you tried calling their order desk, if you filed a mistrade request, all that. The simple fact that their application didn't work is not enough - I've seen if many times before where the app does something strange and you're not sure if you're in our out of a trade - doesn't matter.

Great points @Pa Dax and even if he is 100% in the right it will be a tough fight. This doesn't appear to be a software glitch, or a problem with an order not being handled right, this appears to be an issue where there software was intentionally* programmed not to be able to handle certain market conditions. That is negligence surely?

* Well at least they intentionally ignored messages from CME that this product had changed and would now be allowed to trade negative.

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  #64 (permalink)
 
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Pa Dax View Post
Fact that it plunged so quick to -20 makes me wonder.
I'd be laughing my pants off if it turns out that some algo's and HFT were not adapted to negative rates and traded this as if it were positive numbers.

Damn!

I wish I could give more than one likes for this. Just thinking about it is making me laugh like crazy

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  #65 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
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One lesson here is that retail traders run significantly more risk when they try to trade in the "after rollover, before expiration" time period. Most brokers automatically exit any such positions, not sure what IB's policy is.

Of course, dramatic moves can happen before rollover, but REALLY dramatic moves can happen right before expiration.


Edit: Just got this from Tradestation, they want people out of June too!

Valued Futures Clients:



Due to certain anomalies affecting Crude Oil Futures, trading in the front month futures for Crude Oil and Mini-Crude, CLM20 and QMM20, have been set to Liquidating Trades Only. Any positions in CLM20 and QMM20, both long and short, are subject to liquidation. Options in Crude Oil are also set to Liquidating Trading Only on the Futures Plus platform. Trading is still available in the further out months for Crude Oil and Mini-Crude outright futures contracts, but may be subject to change. We will advise when conditions change.

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  #66 (permalink)
 
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So @kevinkdog is Tradestation doing a good job of being proactive or does this make them look bad?

My vote is bad. If your concerned about the risk raise margins. Say effective tonight you are going to charge 150% of exchange margins on CLM0 and QMM0 positions.

Interesting expiration day
CLK0 +4302
CLM0 -725
The Spread that dropped $51.30 yesterday is up $50.27 today! Get that wrong and it was a quick way to lose $100/barrel!

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  #67 (permalink)
 
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From what I read, the charting of TradeStation also didn't support negative prices?

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  #68 (permalink)
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SMCJB View Post
So @kevinkdog is Tradestation doing a good job of being proactive or does this make them look bad?

My vote is bad. If your concerned about the risk raise margins. Say effective tonight you are going to charge 150% of exchange margins on CLM0 and QMM0 positions.

Interesting expiration day
CLK0 +4302
CLM0 -725
The Spread that dropped $51.30 yesterday is up $50.27 today! Get that wrong and it was a quick way to lose $100/barrel!

I think they already were at 200% margin. They must have had some accounts with big exposure, and TS decided they did not want to be left holding the bag in case something really bad happens. Crazy times

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  #69 (permalink)
 kevinkdog   is a Vendor
 
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Pa Dax View Post
From what I read, the charting of TradeStation also didn't support negative prices?

I saw someone said TradingView had that issue, but Tradestation charts handled negative prices just fine...


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  #70 (permalink)
 GFIs1 
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kevinkdog View Post
Edit: Just got this from Tradestation, they want people out of June too!

Valued Futures Clients:

Due to certain anomalies affecting Crude Oil Futures, trading in the front month futures for Crude Oil and Mini-Crude, CLM20 and QMM20, have been set to Liquidating Trades Only. Any positions in CLM20 and QMM20, both long and short, are subject to liquidation. Options in Crude Oil are also set to Liquidating Trading Only on the Futures Plus platform. Trading is still available in the further out months for Crude Oil and Mini-Crude outright futures contracts, but may be subject to change. We will advise when conditions change.

Seems clear: the nearer to the 0-line - the less interest by the broker.
Taking money aka making money - no problem. Stuff over some lines - forget it. As always
GFIs1

PS: after the June contract is in minus it will certainly be followed by July etc.: as the musician reads
"da capo al fine" which means from the beginning again to the end - lol -

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