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Where would you start as a beginner with $1500 to risk?


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Where would you start as a beginner with $1500 to risk?

  #21 (permalink)
 
bobwest's Avatar
 bobwest 
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SMCJB View Post
That's actually not true. Margin is assessed by the exchange on positions held at the end of day - which for CME is the trading halt generally around 4pm US Central. Doesn't matter (to the CME) what your position is before or after that, just what it is at that time. If you close an open position immediately after the reopen, the margin is not released, and hence you can not withdraw the money, until the next EOD when the margin requirement disappears.

Correct. What this means in practice, if you are a "day trader," is that if you open a trade during the exchange "day" (between the open at 5:00 PM US Central Time and before the close the next calendar day at 4:00 PM CT), your margin is set entirely by your broker (which means, your FCM -- see comments later on brokers ). You see day trading margins on ES in the range of a few hundred dollars, depending on the broker (FCM). The exchange doesn't set day trading margins and doesn't care. But the broker (FCM) will either close you out or require more margin to meet CME levels at some time shortly before the exchange close.


Lemmy Caution View Post
So is this correct? To initiate a trade, exchange-determined initial margin needs to be held by... the clearing firm. And then maintenance margin must be held at the end of the day, but intraday everything is kosher? And thus low day trading margins? The brokers will cut off traders at $50 in the case of some contracts, because they can probably cover the positions before they themselves owe money. But the initial margin is still a strict requirement, yes?

CME is only concerned about margin on trades that are not closed out during the trading day. If they are opened and then closed before the end of the day, they are only the concern of the FCM. Initial margin is set by the CME, and has no bearing on day trading margin. You need to start the (non-day) trade with Initial Margin if you are going to hold it overnight. Maintenance margin is then required by CME in order to stay in a position once it is established. Again, not if it is a day trade, opened and closed completely within the same CME day. You can expect Initial Margin to be higher than Maintenance Margin, and both are often, but not necessarily, higher than your FCM's day trading margin. (A broker could easily decide to require more margin for a day trade, if they didn't really like the risk of the business.)

Now, regarding brokers.... the terms and roles get confused easily:

"Introducing Brokers:" are firms that "introduce" you to an FCM. They may assist you in various ways, including helping set up the account (with the FCM), but the FCM is where your money is, and the FCM decides the day trading margin. Many people do not have an Introducing Broker -- I never have. They may provide various services, depending on the firm, but they are not necessary. You're not really trading through them.

"FCMs:", Futures Commission Merchants, are necessary. They hold your money. If you're a retail trader, your account is with them.

"Clearing Broker:", a number of FCM's are also "Clearing Brokers," (Clearing Members) and many are not. If an FCM is not a Clearing Member, then it has to have one for its trades. Clearing Members are responsible to the exchange for the trades that are cleared on CME, and CME Clearing does all its business through them. Any other firm or member must have a relationship with one of them. The term "Clearing Broker" is wildly misunderstood and misused (there are FCM's that have the word "Clearing" in their name, but that are not Clearing Members. But it sounds better. )

For details on what they do: https://www.cmegroup.com/clearing/membership/cme.html
For a list of actual Clearing Members: https://www.cmegroup.com/clearing/financial-and-regulatory-surveillance/clearing-firms.html
You may find that your FCM, even with "Clearing" in its name, is not on the list. In that case, they use one that is, to actually get their trades cleared.

Yes, it's complicated.

Bob.

----------------------

I notice this has gotten way off-topic for this thread, which started out being about being a beginner with $1500. Sorry, that's what happens sometimes. All this about margin levels and where it is set has some bearing, of course, because $1500 is a very small amount to trade with, except on a day-trading basis. (Which is also the most risky, because of the leverage of using less money for the same-size position.)

But if we can get back toward the original topic, that would be best. I'll try to do the same.

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-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
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  #22 (permalink)
 ZB23 
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DCap View Post
So, I watched a YouTube video by Don Singletary and I purchased his book entitled DayTrading Micrcofutures for income.
Now I am confused – I read someplace else that beginners should Swing Trade first.
I like the action of Scalping – but wondered if there is more safety in swing trading…?
Where would you start as a beginner with $1500 to risk?

1. Beginners should SIM trade different styles to see which suits him best based on performance and personality.

2. When I was a beginner, I didn't even consider entering the futures market with anything less than $25,000. Then I drew equity out of my home to bump it to $100,000.

3. Based on your comment, you aren't ready to trade live.

4. RE: #3: Come back to this tread 18 - 24 months from now to understand what I mean. It will be glaringly obvious.

Good luck and work hard.

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  #23 (permalink)
 ZB23 
Atlanta Metro Area
 
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bobwest View Post

Yes, it's complicated.

Yeah, it is. Many retail traders don't understand the infrastructure through which a trade/transaction travels. I started trading futures in 2016, and didn't learn the terms cited until 2022!

Okay, okay, back on topic.

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  #24 (permalink)
 
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 deaddog 
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DCap View Post
So, I watched a YouTube video by Don Singletary and I purchased his book entitled DayTrading Micrcofutures for income.
Now I am confused – I read someplace else that beginners should Swing Trade first.
I like the action of Scalping – but wondered if there is more safety in swing trading…?
Where would you start as a beginner with $1500 to risk?

I'd open a zero commission equity account and start by swing trading index ETFs.
It's not day trading but the commissions won't be a factor.
The daytrader rule won't let you trade more than 3 trades per week.
So if your heart is set on day trading you could study the markets 4 days a week then make 3 day trades to see if you learned anything.
Trade demo the rest of the time until you can make money consistantly.
When trading demo trade the same size as you would with a live account.

"The days when I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days" RW Hubbard
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  #25 (permalink)
ArkansasClint
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I would figure out a strategy in which you have a high degree of confidence. If you think a MACD cross over will make money (didn't for me), then spend some time on sim/paper to get a feel for it.

I wouldn't spend very much time on SIM. I had the greatest freaking strategies that made me a millionaire on paper. They did not work live. I did not learn that until I traded live. It's better get that perspective first because trading sim vs. trading live is like the difference between reading about sex and then experiencing sex.

Start small. I would recommend the micros. I set up NT8 to use live ES data while cross trading the MES. When I had a feel and some profitable weeks, I scaled up into the minis.

I would suggest that you start by making one good trade. Then make one green day at $10 for a week. Then make one green day at $50 for a week. I would stay that size until you have one month. You should be journaling. I use TradesViz but I have also like Journalytix. Figure out what is working and why you are losing. Cut your losers quickly.

If you just stop taking losses on subpar strategies, you will increase your PnL dramatically.

Finally, don't quit. My first day trading live, I blew a $5K account. I would blow up accounts two more times before I became profitable (though the accounts were smaller after that).

Take the time to really get and understand what you are trading and why you are trading it. Give the market your time, not your money.

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  #26 (permalink)
 HiLatencyTRDR HLT 
Midway florida
 
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Micro bonds

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