bobwest 

Well, two points of view. There's something to both, I think. And I could argue for both. Most traders who try for these will not succeed, and that is simply because most traders who try trading will not succeed. This is not a pessimistic or negative statement, it's just the statistics. And of course, it is possible to learn and to grow and to eventually succeed. In the meantime, if you are new and you want to try them, you may find out how you might do in real life. (It may surprise you.) I do not think that the fact that most who try out will not succeed means it is a rip-off. I think it's an indication that most traders don't have a realistic idea of their abilities. I certainly didn't. I don't think anyone does when they start. For example, I tried passing TST, again and again, years ago now, and it never turned out. It took me a while, but I decided I didn't know how to trade, which I didn't, and I stopped trying to get instantly funded. That was a good idea, for me, at the time. Someone else might have wanted to keep plugging. I personally think it's not always the best idea to do that; you can get true market experience with the micros at a broker that has low micro commissions, and the fact that you are trading for real, with real money that you lose or gain, is a huge difference. But to each his own. So what should someone do? I sometimes point out that the lowest monthly cost at TST is $165 a month (you can trade up to 5 contacts for that), and that one point of ES for one contract in live trading is worth $50; it is not unusual in live trading to see four or five points of ES go against you in a few minutes, and there goes two or three hundred bucks, if you traded only one contract. That's the whole monthly TST cost, and then some. But one point of MES is worth just $5, and that does change things. You could still easily lose the entire $165 pretty quickly even so. But I would rather see someone lose the $165 in MES, even if it happened quickly, because of the value of trading it in real life, with real risk and consequences. Except for a very few people, who probably should not be thinking about trading at this stage in their lives anyway, the cost is very, very, very low, compared to what you can lose or gain in minutes in real trading. But it's also not quite getting your feet wet. A big part of trading is about facing and managing risk, and the risk of failing one month's evaluation is just not that big a deal financially for most people. There is a problem that the trader-candidates who have the least financial cushion will be the most attracted to the offer, as will the traders who have the most unrealistic assessments of their abilities, and these are both unfortunate facts but true. My point is both that it's not horrifically expensive, and that it's also not the same as real live trading and it will not give you the same benefits as live trading. So a wise person will weigh things and decide. You could legitimately decide either way -- you're deciding for yourself, no one else, after all. Your choice will not be the same as anyone else's, and doesn't need to be. Bob.

most sell trading education and well keep selling it to you until , you say uncle .

forgiven 

most sell trading education and well keep selling it to you until , you say uncle .

I suppose that some do. I never paid for any "trading education" when I was busy failing the TST Combines, and I don't think I ever even saw any. It was just the Combine (their term for the trading evaluation.)

But maybe some do. I would just pass if so, as a general rule.

Part of any trader's education is to learn not to look for any kind of trading course to teach you trading. Beyond the basics, it usually isn't a great idea. There may be exceptions, just not usually.

Bob.

There is one thing a lot of people miss with these so called "prop firms". You only get paid from your own profits. So in essence your not getting a 50,000 account as they claim. It's your drawdown of $2500 or so with most of them. Your much better off using your own money. Even as little as $500 you could safely trade a micro MYM. Tiny yes but the reality with no skin in the game will you even take these things seriously? I got wiped out with just 1 E mini because you will be to over extended with the daily drawdowns -$550. Less than 5 minutes. They make incredible money because 90% will fail anyway. And most people are doing the Reset gimmick. Over and over. My advice just open a small account with your own money. Build your skills and stop giving all your money away. Trade small, tiny until you become consistantly profitable and slowly scale up.

I saw the responses and am not thrilled. I just signed up for Apex. Oh well it is evaluation only for now

graci117 

I saw the responses and am not thrilled. I just signed up for Apex. Oh well it is evaluation only for now

Use it as a sim with a smidge more in the game. I tend to get one or two of those account when they are cheap and use them to practice new tactics. Its effective because there is a little more risk then just sim (even if its 50 bucks) and if the new tactics work, you can potentially get funded and have more at risk in a sim!! Kinda a win-win if you are into practice with as much realism as you can get.