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In reality, the fact that you can buy a new account at any time is also a challenge that you have to overcome. Otherwise, you will never get a payout if you don't adjust your trading style. It can take up to 100 accounts and much more to really realize this.
What I cannot understand is that, on the one hand, a serious trading style is required (whatever that is supposed to be), but on the other hand, 1-day pass offers are now being made for qualification, where rules are more or less does not matter. It seems to be a way to attract as many traders as possible, instead of sorting out the "serious" one's.
I also didn't realize what benefits it would bring to a trader to be invited to live trading by Apex, other than perhaps polishing one's ego.
It’s a game. And it’s specifically a casino game. I’m at a loss as to how some of us don’t see this, but then I understand that these are those probably bound to losing money perpetually in the market.
The beautiful thing about the real market is that when it breaks you, it breaks you, and you go do something else. You save time, save mental capital. But with these funded trader simulation programs, masses of us are being bled for a longer period of time while if you simply trade the market, you figure it out or blow out. Either way you learn.
And you have an industry that has capitalized on that, and instead are capturing this desire and interest in the experiential ”Be a trader simulation”.
It seems simple enough that these fine folks could simply trade sim on ninja trader or thinkorswim or anyone of the other free platforms out there, and do it for free, but there is a certain need to pay money for experiences and a lot of people have been conditioned to pay to experience perspective, even when payment isn’t ideal. (it’s found in those of us who pay thousands for some secret indicator, or some secret strategy)
And these funded trader programs are simply experiences. And it’s sad. Because these individuals could just trade in the real market, and it’s obvious. But I guess not.
Chaos at one level of magnification is harmony at a higher level of magnification.
I've found the notification from the discord to be the fastest in terms to service issues, disruptions, or changes. They don't handle any support requests on the discord like you said.
I mean it really comes down to emotional maturity I guess. If you treat online sim prop firms as a gamble, then you wont be a successful trader. If you trade with as an avenue to get experience and potentially receive payouts, then its a great opportunity, and slightly better in my opinion than just sim trading alone. The potential payout and money you put in should be used to make it feel a little more real, you experience the pain of loss and the euphoria of fans and hopefully are trying to recognize these feelings so you stop trading while emotional. Again if its abused as cheap trading for a big win, then yeah you're just teaching yourself bad habits.
If you look at numbers, all online prop firms are a bad deal if you're an actually good trader. You pay $50 a month, have to make $3000 (with a live trailing drawdown following you so you are forced to basically scalp) and then you have to pay them $150 more just to make $3000 more before you can take a payout? Thats a bad deal no matter how you slice. I paid for it as a learning experience, and I feel I am a better trader because of it. Now I treat them as additional trading account, or during high volatility (can still take payouts, but protects my initial investment to the month(s) of eval+funding fee)
Cant remember where I saw it but I think there was a discussion that <15 seconds is generally considered a flip. But regardless of that, if ALL of your trades are <1-3 minutes I don't think many prop firms will welcome you. I'm not saying you cant be profitable that way, but that's not the customer they want. They want to be able to copy good traders, and also also use live trader metrics to help their own in-house traders, so if you are in and out in only a few seconds that data wont help them much.
At the end of the deal we do have to trade according to their rules, as it is their house. You can either adjust your trading style to fit their rules (not really recommended if you have a strategy that works for you in a live enviornemnt) or trade your personal money.
Also its going to be nearly impossible for us here on this forum to give you feedback, as we only have 1 trade referenced. We would need to see your entire trade log to give some real constructive feedback, but I'm willing to bet that the average trade is less than 3 minutes, and again that's something I see these companies as explicitly saying they do not want
The requirements ensure an incredible number will fail, and the lovely thing about funded trader programs is that the 99% that fail will resubscribe the next month perpetually and indefinitely.
There’s nothing wrong with failure, there’s something wrong with failure when the objective is false in the first place And you’re being let along to resubscribe every month. You weren’t even doing the real thing that’s what’s sad.
It’s like you’re living a false life, and you know it’s false because every time that you do something stupid, you respawn for $49. You can imagine that life would be very comical and that people would accomplish nothing.
Whereby you put $500 into a futures trading account and trade micros ($1 a contract).
Here’s the deal, you just mentioned that emotional maturity is necessary, you don’t gain that till a few years into the thing, that means that the 99% that are the population of funded trader programs are simply fodder, they are customers paying indefinitely for an experience, the same as an experience of going to the movies and watching a favorite actor, 🤩 .
It’s simulacra!
Snap out of it.
Chaos at one level of magnification is harmony at a higher level of magnification.
Snap out of what? I think you may have misunderstood my reply - if you don't treat it as real, you will lose money and just give the prop firms a lot.
I think if you search around the site mostly everyone agrees that online prop firms are a bad deal for good traders, myself included. I mean you are trading (in a sim environment for most of them) and you can take payouts, so I wouldn't go as far as its not real, but its definitely not the same as trading in a personal account - I will always advocate to trade in personal over prop firms.
But for people that don't have the $500 to put in a personal account, spending $100-200 is a slightly cheaper option. I think most people don't think about the all-in cost, but also the leverage you get for that $100-$200 is more than your personal $500. All reasons why I chose online prop firms, and is their benefit. Learn and practice in free options, then use prop firms as a lower risk option, and put the gains into your personal account - That should be everyone's golden rule .
I disagree on the maturity part, I think people can gain it in a few months, and I'd rather my friends and family to lose only $50 a few times than thousands in personal losses.
I think the number is more like 75% have never take a payout in a prop firm, but yeah its definitely higher than I would like. They wont outright tell people to stop gambling (that's just taking money out of their own pocket in fees), but hopefully people interested in making money day trading come to sites like this or other education places to learn skills and become profitable
I think that's exactly it. They want people to spend as much as possible and YOLO the accounts just to pass it in a day. Thinking that if they have 10 accounts they'll be making thousands a day. They're selling a false dream.
The sad reality is that if you YOLO your accounts, it's setting you up for failure, as you haven't learnt to trade with consistent discipline.
To add insult to injury, Apex then employ a strict set of loosely defined rules. You cannot average into trades, you cannot change trading style, you have to be able to explain your strategy(who wants to give this away\!?), you cannot change size, you cannot trade news, you cannot trade the market open. Etc.
The worst one is that they say you can't "chase the market"!? What does this even mean? I can't buy in an uptrend? What trades can I take that don't fall foul of one of their rules? Of course I'm going to buy when I think the market is going up.
Those rules are ridiculous, and the world is structured in a way that if you don’t see what’s obvious, smarter players take advantage of that ignorance.
Again, with rules, like these, a trade is happening. The funded trader program participants are ‘dumb money’, and the owners and proprietors of these funded trader programs are smart money. Smart money takes from DUMB MONEY.
And I think this type of trade is the most lucrative of all types of trading because, the type of people that get on funded trader programs not realizing what’s obvious, keep coming back and the numbers that gravitate towards these ‘trading experiences’, the revenues funded trader programs generate must be immense.
And with rules like those, the 99.9% in these funded trader program are LIVESTOCK.
Trade in the real market. it’s $500 to trade a micro account, if you’re not able to put together $500, please don’t contemplate this path in a serious way.
WHY?
Funded trader programs are a thrilling experience, kind of like skydiving. You learn nothing but it’s a fun emotional roller coaster, the funded trader environment is set up to provide an experience (understand what it means to be provided with an experience).
Chaos at one level of magnification is harmony at a higher level of magnification.
With $500, you can get 3 accounts with Apex including the fee for 1 month and lifetime PA fee after that. ($520, but close enough.) Then 3 NQ points on average per day, per account bring in about $2500 - $3000/month after commissions and fees. Yes, this is possible and yes this being done. Very unlikely to do that with a $500 account trading micros.
I get it that you are against funded trader accounts, but you don't have to mention it in every post and frankly this is very arrogant and offensive to call people using it dumb money and livestock.
PS: If I can also make an unrelated comment... Talking a lot does not mean one have a lot to say.