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I'm not trading my personal account while in the OneUp evaluation (this, of course, is costing ME money). Anyway, I do have my live data feed up with my algo running and watch the order flow as I execute a trade on the OneUp sim account.
I have them on separate computers so there's no problem with Ninja. My observation has been that there is little or no difference between the live and sim account. I have the algo running on both accounts and the executions are the same for the most post. The order flow is exactly the same so I'm not getting bad data - and that's the most important aspect of my trading style. So you are right - 1 or 2 ticks isn't going to blow your account or make you a star trader.
What's strange is that they eliminate that 20 second rule when you're funded. Doesn't make sense. If their statistics are so convincing, why would they allow funded traders, who are risking real money, to engage in a behavior they believe is detrimental? More questions than answers on the 20 second rule. I'm a trader, not a crystal ball operator. I have no idea how long I'm going to be in a trade once it's executed - and it would be a distraction to worry about it.
My guess would be (and it's strictly a guess) is that TopStep and/or their investors have lost money with some scalpers. Some may have tried to game the system too which resulted in losses for TopStep.
I trade 6 on my live account. I'm trading 6 on the evaluation account. My motivation is to see whether I can scale up without adding $3,000 per lot to my live account (3x margin requirement). If I can scale up on their dime, it might be worth it.
Howard Roark is correct on the cushion. OneUp requires a $5,500 cushion on the $150,000 account to withdraw. This actually makes sense because once you hit your trailing draw down of $150,000, it's your money that you're really trading. TopStep will allow you take all your profits out - however, if your trailing draw down is at $150,000, you have no capital to trade!!
I could trade 6 with a $5,500 cushion. My average loss is about $1,000 so I haven't gotten anywhere near the $5,5000 in the evaluation account.
But I would add $1,000 for each additional lot. That's a lot less than $3,000 per lot.
We'll see how it goes.
Yes, I agree that for some traders, the 50% volume rule just wouldn't work. For me, I do the same thing every day - same time, same trades so it really shouldn't affect me too much.
You're right about the cushion of $5,500. But it actually makes sense because I think they all have the trailing draw down rule i.e. once you reach the $150,000 mark, that's it. You're on your own. So if you keep $5,500 in the account that's essentially your margin, as you said. It's still better than 3x day margins. I know some people don't agree with me on the 3x margin, but I've been around long enough to know that a Black Swan day happens. In any case, I don't see it as a big detriment.
As I said in another post to Bob, my motivation is to see if I can scale up on their dime without adding $3,000 per lot. We'll see how my idea works out.
I had the same question. I can see why they would have a rule like this (whether I agree with it or not) in the Combine, because when a trader gets funded the company suddenly is at risk for their losses, up to a point at least. So if they think it's a bad way to trade, then keeping them from getting funded in the first place is a good idea. But when they then allow it for funded traders they are going to have to deal with it then. I guess they figure that if someone makes it out of the Combine they will have shown they are not as bad a risk.
My guess is the same. Once burned, twice shy.
Bob.
When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
Yeah. I just question the motivation behind the rule I suppose.
As a funded trader you start with a 150K account. You can have a drawdown all the way to 145 001 and still be in the game. The trailing drawdown then trails as your account grows and will stop at 150K once your account reaches 155K. At that point, I don't think it decreases (or increases). So if you dip below 150K then you're out of the game.
Building a cushion isn't a big detriment long term, but if you compare for example with Earn2Trade you start earning money right away. Meaning if you earn 8K as a funded trader - those 8K are yours. While with OneUp/MES you have to earn 13K to earn 8K.
OneUp says the first 8K of profits are yours, but it's a bit misleading when they don't say you have to first earn a 5K of cushion to withdraw those 8K.
I'm sure it's all in the fine print, but it's not something they make sure to mention as far as I can see.
Yes, you can take all your profits out with E2T, but if you withdraw the first $8,000 and your balance is back at $150,000, you have nothing to trade with. The draw down stays at $150,000 once you reach it. So with all these companies it looks like you must build a cushion which remains in the account. If you don't, the risk of going below $150,000 is high and you'll lose the account. The only difference I see is that OneUp requires $5,500. TopStep has another convoluted method for withdrawals, but the same draw down rule applies - once your reach $150,000 it stays there.
I understand. Considering you actually need to retain a cushion in your E2T account that's a fair point. Of course, some traders would be happy to just withdraw their 8K and be gone, but for a long term trader I can see why it wouldn't make that much of a difference.
Still something that's worth keeping in mind for those interested in trying this.
Well tomorrow is the 15th day. I'm up at $160,000. Had a bad day yesterday with one very questionable trade - when reviewing my trades I saw I was long 12 lots at one point! The max I trade is 6. I will add 2 if the numbers suggest there's a break, but never 12. I hit my max daily draw down because of that. I was up at $163,500. Made $2,000 back today. Haven't decided whether I'm going to ask them about that 12 lot trade. I traded badly and took too many trades overall. I was ahead right to my target goal for the day. Should have stopped there. Would've, should've, didn't!! (I think it was Hillary Clinton who said that).