VirtualMark 

And after a quick read of their rules I see that their help centre has been updated 4 days ago to include yet more rules, this really rings alarm bells: It's just a mess, so many rules to worry about. Rather than "just profit and do well in the market" which is hard enough. And having to explain my system? Er... I buy when I think it's going to go up and sell when I think it's going down. They have also changed the wording - "potentially qualify for a withdrawal" and "simulated funds", basically even less chance that you'll get paid. They reserve the right to set up a zoom meeting with you!? Or make you record your trading and explain each trade? Wow, I'm done with this awful company. Anyone here been requested to do a zoom meeting!?

These rules sound like an indictment. In case of doubt, you have no chance if the payout is refused. Apex's statement that traders have now benefited enough from the system is also very remarkable. Shouldn't that be the case? Didin't they want successful partners? I would still be interested in the revenue side of Apex. Then the picture would be a little clearer. Unfortunately, there is no information about this anywhere and no one can say anything about it.

pipandrun 

These rules sound like an indictment. In case of doubt, you have no chance if the payout is refused. Apex's statement that traders have now benefited enough from the system is also very remarkable. Shouldn't that be the case? Didin't they want successful partners? I would still be interested in the revenue side of Apex. Then the picture would be a little clearer. Unfortunately, there is no information about this anywhere and no one can say anything about it.

It's awful. I can't imagine having to record my trading sessions and having to explain why I entered a trade. After all my trading isn't perfect, what about my mistakes?

And to make matters worse, I've just seen on discord that they are basically scamming people. They have an offer for the $250k account, which has $6500 of drawdown and a profit goal of $15k, the offer is $85 for the lifetime fee if you pass. Sounds good right?

Well the offer is only valid until the 20th May, so you have to make $15k in 4 days with that trailing threshold following you all the way. So basically YOLO the account, or risk having to pay $300. It's disgusting business practice, I wonder how many people have rushed to buy these $250k accounts and not realised the offer is only valid for a few days?

They banned me for pointing this out, seem like lovely people to deal with. Was a throwaway account anyway, I'd never give them my real identity. Their response was "don't buy it then", and my account got banned for a week just for saying you'd have to YOLO the account in the next 4 days.

I tried to upload the screenshot but it won't show here for some reason.

Here is my take on this:

They are worried that a regulator might come in, and they are trying to make their business as legit as possible.

In order to do this they need to have as much people as possible trading a real account, like real prop firms do. If they are just using the money of the people who fail evaluations to pay those few that are successful, they are operating a bit like a CFD broker (or worse, a pOnZi scheme).

The problem is that apparently there are a lot of people who trade like complete degenerates and can't be moved to a real account. They want people who manage their risk correctly, not people who use the account drawdown as the stop loss for their trades.

Personally, I think that the new rules are fair. If you got a desk at a real prop firm (like smb or axia) they would expect you to follow very similar rules. They wouldn't want you to DCA and get stuck in a trade praying for a pullback. They wouldn't allow you to trade 1 contract one day, and 15 the next because "I lost yesterday and I need to make it back".

Bottom line is that if the new rules are a problem for your style of trading, you probably have the wrong style of trading and your risk of ruin is too big. This does not mean that you don't make money. It simply means that you can't sell your skill set to a prop firm because it would be too risky for them to do business with you.

And to make matters worse, I've just seen on discord that they are basically scamming people. They have an offer for the $250k account, which has $6500 of drawdown and a profit goal of $15k, the offer is $85 for the lifetime fee if you pass. Sounds good right?

Well the offer is only valid until the 20th May, so you have to make $15k in 4 days with that trailing threshold following you all the way. So basically YOLO the account, or risk having to pay $300. It's disgusting business practice, I wonder how many people have rushed to buy these $250k accounts and not realised the offer is only valid for a few days?

I disagree with you here. From my reading of the terms and watching the video, you do NOT have to make 15k in 4 days. You can take as long as you want to, to make 15k. There is a monthly res-subscription fee which kicks in a month after you pay at the advertised discount rate.

sienna 

And to make matters worse, I've just seen on discord that they are basically scamming people. They have an offer for the $250k account, which has $6500 of drawdown and a profit goal of $15k, the offer is $85 for the lifetime fee if you pass. Sounds good right? Well the offer is only valid until the 20th May, so you have to make $15k in 4 days with that trailing threshold following you all the way. So basically YOLO the account, or risk having to pay $300. It's disgusting business practice, I wonder how many people have rushed to buy these $250k accounts and not realized the offer is only valid for a few days? I disagree with you here. From my reading of the terms and watching the video, you do NOT have to make 15k in 4 days. You can take as long as you want to, to make 15k. There is a monthly res-subscription fee which kicks in a month after you pay at the advertised discount rate.

If you want to have the $85-activation fee, you have to be finished in the next 4 days. VirtualMark is right. Thereafter, the activation fee goes back to the old price. I didn't realize that, too. I thought the whole offer would only last until Tuesday Night, what is correct, but including the cheaper activation fee, but as long as you need....
Apex

sienna 

And to make matters worse, I've just seen on discord that they are basically scamming people. They have an offer for the $250k account, which has $6500 of drawdown and a profit goal of $15k, the offer is $85 for the lifetime fee if you pass. Sounds good right? Well the offer is only valid until the 20th May, so you have to make $15k in 4 days with that trailing threshold following you all the way. So basically YOLO the account, or risk having to pay $300. It's disgusting business practice, I wonder how many people have rushed to buy these $250k accounts and not realised the offer is only valid for a few days? I disagree with you here. From my reading of the terms and watching the video, you do NOT have to make 15k in 4 days. You can take as long as you want to, to make 15k. There is a monthly res-subscription fee which kicks in a month after you pay at the advertised discount rate.

100 %, yes this is a nice joke (or is it spam/fraud) I also watched this video and had to laugh and he is ultra helpful, because he added an extra day, lol. I know these funding firms (some call them prop firms without knowing what a prop firm is) since many many years, as I started with them around 7 years ago there were 90 % traders but in the meantime there are 90 % gambler. 2 days ago I had a discussion with one of them because he was so proud that he made so much money trading the PPI and told him this was a pure random walk, but he tried to explain me that he is such a good trader

@pipandrun
On the discount of the PA activation fee, I stand corrected. You are right there. Sure, that is a marketing ploy, unless you know what you're doing "trading size". But in terms of ongoing monthly discount it's not a bad deal, IF wanting to trade the $250k account over a few weeks or months, slowly.

sienna 

@pipandrun On the discount of the PA activation fee, I stand corrected. You are right there. Sure, that is a marketing ploy, unless you know what you're doing "trading size". But in terms of ongoing monthly discount it's not a bad deal, IF wanting to trade the $250k account over a few weeks or months, slowly.

The issue I have is that it wasn't made clear. And I would imagine that hundreds of people have bought multiple accounts to take advantage of this offer without realising what they'll have to pay if they pass them all.

Across 20 accounts, this is the difference between paying $1600 for all activations, to $6000.

And it just happens to coincide with the recent update of their more stringent payout policy, and their proud announcement that they have employed 15 more staff to crackdown on "scammers", although I have to question exactly what these scammers are supposed to be doing if they're generating profit and getting paid out.

They make out like everything is for our benefit, and say things like "we want to pay our traders more" and that "consistently profitable traders have nothing to worry about", then add in rules for stop loss tick amounts, having to have a zoom call or video yourself trading for hours and several other abhorrent rules.

They put out a video that the $250k account was for people who's strategy failed because they were using too much size and kept blowing the account. It's laughable, because the $50k account has a $3000 target with $2500 drawdown, whereas the $250k account has a $15k target with $6500 drawdown. So to pass in the same time you'd need to use 5x more size, but only have 2.6x more drawdown. In other words, the $250k account is much harder to pass and will take longer if you do it properly, and only allows you to increase your size a tiny bit else you run into the same problems.

People who fail their accounts because of too much size don't need a larger account, they need to size down and take their time. Apex knows this, yet they aggressively push lies onto the unsuspecting masses. This is a huge red flag for me.

wavingman 

Here is my take on this: They are worried that a regulator might come in, and they are trying to make their business as legit as possible. In order to do this they need to have as much people as possible trading a real account, like real prop firms do. If they are just using the money of the people who fail evaluations to pay those few that are successful, they are operating a bit like a CFD broker (or worse, a pOnZi scheme). The problem is that apparently there are a lot of people who trade like complete degenerates and can't be moved to a real account. They want people who manage their risk correctly, not people who use the account drawdown as the stop loss for their trades. Personally, I think that the new rules are fair. If you got a desk at a real prop firm (like smb or axia) they would expect you to follow very similar rules. They wouldn't want you to DCA and get stuck in a trade praying for a pullback. They wouldn't allow you to trade 1 contract one day, and 15 the next because "I lost yesterday and I need to make it back". Bottom line is that if the new rules are a problem for your style of trading, you probably have the wrong style of trading and your risk of ruin is too big. This does not mean that you don't make money. It simply means that you can't sell your skill set to a prop firm because it would be too risky for them to do business with you.

Or perhaps they are worried that they're paying out too much to influencers who have 20 accounts and draw $80k a month(and I've never seen any of these people pass their accounts live, such as the fraud "TradesByMatt" who magically had 20 accounts one day, but that's another subject).

They have to pay these influencers quickly to get glowing reports. And they may not be getting enough from fees to pay everyone, which could be why the new rules suddenly popped up alongside a 90% off sale and a misleading $250k account sale.

wavingman 

If you got a desk at a real prop firm (like smb or axia) they would expect you to follow very similar rules. They wouldn't want you to DCA and get stuck in a trade praying for a pullback. They wouldn't allow you to trade 1 contract one day, and 15 the next because "I lost yesterday and I need to make it back". Bottom line is that if the new rules are a problem for your style of trading, you probably have the wrong style of trading and your risk of ruin is too big. This does not mean that you don't make money. It simply means that you can't sell your skill set to a prop firm because it would be too risky for them to do business with you.

There is nothing wrong with DCA IF it's part of a money management plan. When this method is not part of a money management plan, it is more accurately to be described as 'adding to losers.'