VirtualMark 

You may be right. I don't see how they can throw a contract at you after you've paid, you should be able to refuse and get a refund. There's already evidence on threads I'm following on Reddit of payouts being denied, and them asking for videos of people trading. That's a deal breaker for me, nobody gets to demand stuff like that from me, my home is my sanctuary and I'll decide who I let in. Unbelievable. There's also people saying on Youtube that they have had PA accounts denied after passing in 1 day due to gambling. Apex seems to be done in my eyes. This particular commenter said he traded CPI on an eval and passed, then was denied his PA account. And they are getting some seriously horrible reviews on Trustpilot. Just have a look, filter by 1 star and sort by most recent. Someone claims to have had their accounts closed after speaking out on Discord. So many red flags here.

Can you share the links of the threads of others not getting paid out? Curious if it was before or after the rule crackdown on rules

shokunin 

Did the PA agreement actually change? I wasn't aware of that. From the video, it sounds like fraud and scammers are a big issue for Apex. I'm looking forward to seeing his next videos which are supposed to go into more detail about what they are up against.

They added a no adding to losers rule and a more explicit 3:1 risk to reward rule. If they are unsure about your gains they said they now have a dedicated team reviewing trades and will deny and/or ask for live zoom interviews and/or ask for live trading screen caps

jlabtrades 

Can you share the links of the threads of others not getting paid out? Curious if it was before or after the rule crackdown on rules

I'd have a read through their discord, search for evaluation, and for denied. Apparently people are now being denied PA accounts if they traded news, I've seen this posted twice on separate forums.

This guy here claims that they denied him a payout due to inconsistent position sizing and that he didn't have videos of himself trading. Make of it what you will, personally I wouldn't judge much by one claim, but am looking at the overall picture. If more and more payment or PA acount denial stories pop up then I think we will have a clearer picture.

https://www.reddit.com/r/options/comments/1848ldi/comment/l4q6gmh/?context=3

VirtualMark 

I'd have a read through their discord, search for evaluation, and for denied. Apparently people are now being denied PA accounts if they traded news, I've seen this posted twice on separate forums. This guy here claims that they denied him a payout due to inconsistent position sizing and that he didn't have videos of himself trading. Make of it what you will, personally I wouldn't judge much by one claim, but am looking at the overall picture. If more and more payment or PA acount denial stories pop up then I think we will have a clearer picture. https://www.reddit.com/r/options/comments/1848ldi/comment/l4q6gmh/?context=3

Interesting, but it honestly seems like that guy on reddit got lucky in a trade and was asking for the minimum payout. If I was a betting man, I would say we arent getting the full picture on his experience, and his trade history would show some type of lucky gambling play, then trading micros to get the minimum days. They can ask for videos for future trading days, but not past - so not sure why hes saying they were asking for videos of his past trades.

I've been in their discord for a while, and I will say I'm shocked how inexperienced a lot of these people, then they are quick to call it a scam. Not try ing to defend apex here, as the rules aren't great for traders, but you also can signup for something then call it a scam when what you did was against their TOS.

I'm always hesitant to trust a single source as a trustworthy source, especially online, and it seems like a lot of the people being denied are for not complying with the "payout rules" that apex has - mostly the 30% best day and consistency rules (no trading 1-5 NQ then 1 MNQ to get the 10 days minimum). Again not a great day for real traders, and not indicative of a real account, but we are trading with a company and ultimately we have to either play by their less than ideal rules, or move on to somewhere else

jlabtrades 

Interesting, but it honestly seems like that guy on reddit got lucky in a trade and was asking for the minimum payout. If I was a betting man, I would say we arent getting the full picture on his experience, and his trade history would show some type of lucky gambling play, then trading micros to get the minimum days. They can ask for videos for future trading days, but not past - so not sure why hes saying they were asking for videos of his past trades. I've been in their discord for a while, and I will say I'm shocked how inexperienced a lot of these people, then they are quick to call it a scam. Not try ing to defend apex here, as the rules aren't great for traders, but you also can signup for something then call it a scam when what you did was against their TOS. I'm always hesitant to trust a single source as a trustworthy source, especially online, and it seems like a lot of the people being denied are for not complying with the "payout rules" that apex has - mostly the 30% best day and consistency rules (no trading 1-5 NQ then 1 MNQ to get the 10 days minimum). Again not a great day for real traders, and not indicative of a real account, but we are trading with a company and ultimately we have to either play by their less than ideal rules, or move on to somewhere else

Yeah I totally agree. The problem is so bad that some people don't even understand the trailing drawdown, then leave a 1 star review about how their account got blown without them losing any money at all. It's like they've not bothered to read any of the rules and just expect Apex to gift them hundreds of thousands of dollars. 😂

I think my issue with the recent rule updates is that it's too much. It's too intrusive, the rules aren't clearly defined and it is all stacked against the trader. Trading is hard enough, even if someone gave us $100,000 and said to trade it live however we like, we could still end up losing a large chunk of it. So to have all these extra hoops to jump through is a deal breaker for me at the moment. I'll be second guessing every trade and opportunity, thinking "will this ruin my chances of a payout", or "will this trade make Apex want to film me trading" etc.

VirtualMark 

Yeah I totally agree. The problem is so bad that some people don't even understand the trailing drawdown, then leave a 1 star review about how their account got blown without them losing any money at all. It's like they've not bothered to read any of the rules and just expect Apex to gift them hundreds of thousands of dollars. 😂 I think my issue with the recent rule updates is that it's too much. It's too intrusive, the rules aren't clearly defined and it is all stacked against the trader. Trading is hard enough, even if someone gave us $100,000 and said to trade it live however we like, we could still end up losing a large chunk of it. So to have all these extra hoops to jump through is a deal breaker for me at the moment. I'll be second guessing every trade and opportunity, thinking "will this ruin my chances of a payout", or "will this trade make Apex want to film me trading" etc.

The apex FAQ and whole website needs a copy writer, or some professional writer to review and reword all their language. I agree its all too much, too verbose, and uses too much jargon and analogies. If I'm going to a rules page, just give me the bullets not a paragraph on why its there. Not to mention they have all the info scattered over like 30 pages, and you have to read all of it to every single detail that would blow your account. Just very messy all around

VirtualMark 

Yeah I totally agree. The problem is so bad that some people don't even understand the trailing drawdown, then leave a 1 star review about how their account got blown without them losing any money at all. It's like they've not bothered to read any of the rules and just expect Apex to gift them hundreds of thousands of dollars. 😂 I think my issue with the recent rule updates is that it's too much. It's too intrusive, the rules aren't clearly defined and it is all stacked against the trader. Trading is hard enough, even if someone gave us $100,000 and said to trade it live however we like, we could still end up losing a large chunk of it. So to have all these extra hoops to jump through is a deal breaker for me at the moment. I'll be second guessing every trade and opportunity, thinking "will this ruin my chances of a payout", or "will this trade make Apex want to film me trading" etc.

Right but for someone savy like yourself that has actually taken the time to understand the game, it's to your benefit that others will blow their accounts so Apex will have more funds to pay you.

planetkill 

Right but for someone savy like yourself that has actually taken the time to understand the game, it's to your benefit that others will blow their accounts so Apex will have more funds to pay you.

I disagree, its to our benefit if its a honest operation that truly provides a beneficial product. The bigger the company and the more people that join and fail the challenges, and feel slighted by the rules, then the move complaints there are to regulators which could shutdown the entire industry. And to be clear I'm all for more regulations that makes its more fair to traders, and that require clear rules

Also, I dont think any of us want a game where we only get paid out when other people lose money on stupid rules and subscription fees, thats not fair or honest to any trader. I would really prefer they make money by operating like a prop firm and profit share / copy trading, rather than duping inexperienced people willing to gamble for a payday

VirtualMark 

Yeah the trick is just to size down and take your time with it. Easy to pass with smaller size. The problems start when people overleverage, go +$1500 in a trade then let it come back down. Then have a loser next, and suddenly they've blown the account and blame Apex. That being said, their drawdown is pretty awful. EOD makes a lot more sense to me. You can blow an Apex account without losing a single penny due to their drawdown. You can even blow it and still be profitable. Clearly the rule is just there to trip people up and give Apex more subscription fees.

It does stop following you once your auto liquidate value is $50,100 on a 50k account, for instance. I passed 2 out of 3 of my evals within days of each other only to lose the first one without completely understanding the drawdown and the next was just a lottery play to try and get as far beyond that f'ing drawdown as possible faster than I should.

jlabtrades 

I disagree, its to our benefit if its a honest operation that truly provides a beneficial product. The bigger the company and the more people that join and fail the challenges, and feel slighted by the rules, then the move complaints there are to regulators which could shutdown the entire industry. And to be clear I'm all for more regulations that makes its more fair to traders, and that require clear rules Also, I dont think any of us want a game where we only get paid out when other people lose money on stupid rules and subscription fees, thats not fair or honest to any trader. I would really prefer they make money by operating like a prop firm and profit share / copy trading, rather than duping inexperienced people willing to gamble for a payday

To be fair though, if we were trading the live market, my goal is to take money from everyone else. If I win I take money out of your account, and if you win you take money from mine. It's an "eat what you kill" sort of job, and a zero sum game. Whenever there are winners there are the losers who paid for them.

So I don't really have an issue of taking other people's fees, as it's a similar model to live trading. The better ones will get the money, the worse ones will lose money. My goal is just to be in the top 50% and consistently pull profits.