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It seems that Greece was drawn into an already existing ponzi scheme.
Perhaps that ponzi scheme needed new "members" to continue !
Not with-standing the scheming of the likes of Goldman Sachs.
Imo, the term "bailout" does not reflect the truth of the situation.
Greece, and indeed, no debtor gets "bailed out".
That luxury is for the creditor/s, as we have clearly seen.
Just look at the fire sale of Greek assets that's taken place.
I think there was literally an action in London a few months back.
I can only try to imagine how the Greek people felt as their ports, transport, electric, water, government buildings, to mention just a few, and some of their Islands and historical sites were auctioned off...
Apparently 2/3 rds of laws we now live under in the UK are, in some shape or form, a consequence of European directive.
So it's ok for the Fed to bail out German banks (as well as their own and UK banks etc) ?
It's ok for the IMF to do their "business" across South America and Africa ?
Presumably because non of the above suffer from any corrupt politicians or that the distribution of money would be "out of control" !
Who are you to determine who is "civilized" ?
Where would our civilization be without the Greeks or the Italians.
The Greek people are, as we sit back in a civilized demur, these very days, protesting against their
governments decisions to accept any money from the IMF/ECB and EU.
The people of Greece don't want our money !!
What you say is main stream media drivel.....
I've highlighted some text in blue and hope I've not taken them out of context, (apologies if I have) but can't help think it's unfortunate to see such comments posted.
In times of obvious acute suffering, it seems a little insensitive to disparage the peoples of another country
and a little naive to give these things as reason for the plight Greece now finds herself in.
We can all, no doubt, look to the past and indeed the present, of our own countries histories and actions for evidence
of corruption, incompetence and wrong doing.
I only draw attention to this in hope that the thread will remain relevant to the original question at the very least, and that
any views, that are welcome, are at the very least without conventional stereo typical non- sense.
I'm now going to listen to the football while the "civilized world" pay footballers hundreds of thousands of pounds per week and bomb the living hell out of one of the only countries on the planet to have no debt...and then I might have a lie down...
@zt379 Thanks for your response, enjoyed reading it!
What about paying taxes? The greek are not poor. I would say that they are better off than Eastern Germans.
It was a mockery from my side. Obviously Greece is civilized, and I am fond of the Greek culture.
They do not want the money, but they have already taken and spent it. The sovereign debt is now close to € 350 billion.
They will never be able to pay back, what they have spent, so somebody else needs to pay, or they have to declare bankruptcy.
Unlike Portugal - which is poorer in temrs of revenue per capita - Greece continues to run a high deficit. If they do not stop deficit spending, they can not solve their problems. Greece is a country which is not poor, but simply continues to run high deficits. Even if someone pays the € 350 billion debt, they cannot survive if they continue to run a high deficit.
This is an example of Ponzi finance. Whether crisis or not, Greece spends money that it has never earned.
Who is responsible for those deficits?
(a) Greek policy makers
(b) The Greek people because they have elected those policy makers
(c) Banks who have lent money to Greece although they are running a Ponzi scheme
And why should Germans and other Northern European countries pay for the outcome?
If your neighbours buys a large house that he cannot afford, will you go to him and make him a gift of 10,000 pounds to help him to keep it?
Why should a good, honest German taxpayer, a guy who saved his money, suddenly get a bill from the German government saying you have got to pay for some Greeks sitting on the beach drinking ouzo? That's absurd. - in Business Week
The picture is not correct, they do not sit on the beach drinking ouzo. There are not so many differences. By the way I also dring ouzo sometimes. The German Parliament - the Bundestag - has voted for guarantees of € 211 billion ($ 282 billion) for supporting the weaker Southern European countries. That makes $ 3,439 per capita. With a family of four my personal share is $ 13,756.
I do not really mind helping Southern Europe. But the politicians once more do not understand how much money they spend. And remember, the income per head in Eastern Germany is about as high as in Greece, but the weather is worse, so more money is needed for housing and heating.
The real problem is the lack of sensitivity. Although Germany is heavily bleading for Greece and other deficit spenders, there are no thanks, but the Greek media are behaving exactly as welfare recipients, who claim a right to be fed over the next 100 years. Some pictures for your enjoyment:
Merkel and Sarkozy throwing deficit spenders into the sea (brilliant idea ...)
and a not very sensitive one ( I don't think she is that explosive ....)
and this one from Russia (Merkel got him by the balls, Sarkozy is more hanging on then supporting her ... )
At least having some fun for the money spent! Any comments?
Very true. The roads of Berlin are full of holes, because the city is bankrupt.
Eastern Germany's industrial heritage was a whole bunch of factories for the 1930's that had not been properly maintained. West Berlin had no industry left, when reunification came unexpected in 1990. Still there is not a single company of the DAX (equivalent to DJIA) having its headquarters in Berlin. All of them are located in Western Germany.
The positive side: Life in Berlin is cheaper than in Athens. According to the Mercer Index
Athens ranks 28th (index value 85.9)
Berlin ranks 49th (index value 80.8)
Lisboa ranks 64th (index value 76.3)
So why do you think that there is a budget deficit in Greece in Portugal? They have much lower taxes than Germany.
Thanks
Our civility prevails, although I'm surprised you're so easily entertained !
I'm not an economist and try to understood more about these things, but I can't help thinking what you say is an over simplification.
I imagine most citizens pay.
This, imo, is not about the average citizen.
It's what corporations don't pay, and by that virtue how our interests are not properly served by so called elected officials.
I don't see this as an issue just for Greece, all though they, for various reasons, seem to be getting the most attention on this issue. We are all in the same situation I believe, in respect of how our money is being spent by our respective governments.
Where's all this money going, and who's now on the hook to re-pay it !
I agree. However, it seems to come down to who owns what and in who's interest are the contracts and proceeds.
This may be of interest.. Greece has 40 billion barrels of oil, and thousands of tons of Gold and Uranium
"They" being who ?
Again, I believe, generally, the citizens of all of Europe are asking the same questions.
As you stated in a previous post. we would do well not to be persuaded what and how to think of each other, by our politicians.
I don't know the answers to these questions.
We are collectively responsible for what we have I guess.
But at the very least, perhaps it is the people, across many nations at this time, that are taking a decision that they no longer want what they have.
This is a very simplistic 4 minute clip to explain a complicated issue.
I watched that vid on the oil and gold and really don't know what to make of it. I come to the conclusion that they are full of it. I can't see how a goverment this broke would not exploit these opportunities, just doesn't make sense. For the record I'm not attacking your post, only commenting on that particular video