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Lots of good points in the above posts.
I haven't tried OneUp, but have tried a competitor. I have never seen any posts for these type of funding companies where somebody claims they haven't been able to withdraw money that they have made once live. I have read lots of whiny posts from people who weren't able to pass of who hit their loss limits once they had done so. But most posts I read seem to be people happy enough with the companies even when it doesn't work out for them (at least those people who were competent enough to actually read the relevant rules and information before starting). The lack of major criticism and disgruntled customers that I have seen for them I find fairly impressive considering that being a trading related company must be a pretty thankless task as the vast majority of their customers will never achieve the success that they are working towards and paying for (lets say 80%, in the same way that self funded traders won't).
And the concept that these companies are bad because they probably make a large percentage of their profits from the tests seems bizarre to me. They are businesses, I want them to be successful, especially if I am being backed by one of them. MES started out with free tests and a 50% profit split for funded traders. So the funded traders were supporting the freeloaders. When that presumably proved unsustainable they changed name and came back with a paid for model that increased the profit split for those that passed. I know which model I would choose to remain with if I was funded. Short term trading of derivatives is pure capitalism, it is about making money and that is it. People who want to trade (and make themselves lots of money), but complain about trading companies wanting to make a profit themselves by charging for their services or trading products............really, WTF
I think mbondiett's point "...what stands out even more that people should pay attention to is the fact that although you burned through $10K, when you finally got focus you were able to battle back and win back half your total out of pocket expenses in less than 6 weeks!!!!!!" ,is easily overlooked. With a level of consistency money can be made back pretty quickly. More so starting small and increasing size as the account grows. There is no faster way to not make it than trying to make it quickly from the beginning.
There have been a number of webinars recently where presenters have emphasised the likely learning time required before becoming consistently profitable, as likely to be a few years for an independent trader trying to work it out for themselves. I have spent a fair amount of my money on these types of tests, and the alternative of opening an account and just sim trading is always mentioned as being free, but nobody sim trades for months on end or even a year or two. They invariably go live too early because they are tired of putting the work in and not making anything for it when their real account is sat there right next to the Sim one, and then their small account quickly spirals down to nothing. I imagine the number of retail trader that have learnt to trade without it costing them anything must be miniscule.
You do not win as a trader, you just get to play again the next day. If that game doesn’t appeal to you then you should not trade. Gary Norden
I really love your idea of "no resets" and running out the time sim trading. It is awesome. I will now include that in my list of imperatives when discussing things with new and frustrated traders who have opted to try the combine/evaluation route. Have fun in the garden.
Well said on all points. Even though I have spent $10k plus, I have nothing but optimism. I feel like I have paid my dues enough to at least squeak out $1000 per month, if not $1000 per week. And I think this optimism pervades my writing in this thread and in my journal. At least I hope it does. And I hold no animosity at all toward TST or OneUp.
As humans, we all seem to be wired similarly, so I bet you are right-- "the number of retail trader that have learnt to trade without it costing them anything must be miniscule."
Interestingly, tomorrow I begin a test. I invited a friend of mine to watch me trade. He was a big trader 20 years ago, and had $1M in his account. But he had a HUGE technical error with a big Greenpan news release and the market blew past his stop and took out most of his funds in one day.
But this is what is fascinating to me--my friend is wired differently from most of us. He has a functional level of OCD. For example, he always has to have two scoops of ice cream, and he has to kiss his wife an even number of times during the day. LOL) And he says that he is able to trade without any emotion. Imagine that!!!
Trading technology has changed tremendously in 20 years, but the support and resistance levels in the market and the emotional responses of fear and greed are permanent fixtures in the markets. So I am intrigued by how this might turn out. The trading acumen he had previously displayed might come right back to him like riding a bike, OR he might crash and burn like the best of us. Any predictions?
And if he likes what he sees, should I encourage him to try TST or OneUp, or should I tell him to just trade sim until he can go live?
I absolutely love this entire post, but I love the part I quoted the best.
Whining is something that grown-ups who have enough money to trade -- or who aspire to -- should just get over.
Trading is not going to work out for most people, until either it does or they decide it's not for them. Blaming the company that is testing you is not going to help anyone make progress.
There should be an end to whining at some point. If someone doesn't like the rules, don't start. If you have real losses (well, real sim losses), don't blame the scorekeeper. If you don't like the company, no matter why, move on. Even if they're as mean and unfair as the whiners say. Life is too short for nonsense.
Oh, but I forget, this is the internet.
Sorry about the rant. It's been bottled up for a while and I just had to let it out.
Thanks Bob, glad you liked my post.
Some posts raise my blood pressure too. Life's too short to be reading or discussing them these days, if it wasn't ever. One of the reasons I add people to my ignore list, great feature of the forum, up to 107 now LOL (though probably 95% of them don't post anymore anyway).
Going out to enjoy the sunshine.
You do not win as a trader, you just get to play again the next day. If that game doesn’t appeal to you then you should not trade. Gary Norden
I don't have anyone on my ignore list. I just yell at them.
There's always a chance they'll eventually say something worthwhile I will want to see, and besides, as you say, the ones that offer no value generally stop posting here and move on.
SStheo, thanks so much for a very realistic and reliable account of what it took to pass OneUp. I will probably be coming down that path as well as soon. Your note is very helpful. Thanks
If he can forget his past experience, he should simply follow your guidance on the best approach.i.e Sim first, then trade small and give oneself 2-3 months to pass the Test.
He will very quickly find his previous experience will accelerate his performance and reading of price action.