NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





Selling Options on Futures?


Discussion in Options

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one ron99 with 2,221 posts (4,489 thanks)
    2. looks_two SMCJB with 346 posts (733 thanks)
    3. looks_3 kevinkdog with 341 posts (400 thanks)
    4. looks_4 myrrdin with 288 posts (408 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one SMCJB with 2.1 thanks per post
    2. looks_two ron99 with 2 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 myrrdin with 1.4 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 kevinkdog with 1.2 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 2,003,767 views
    2. thumb_up 9,259 thanks given
    3. group 458 followers
    1. forum 7,370 posts
    2. attach_file 794 attachments




 
Search this Thread

Selling Options on Futures?

  #451 (permalink)
 ron99 
Cleveland, OH
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Trading: Options on Futures
Posts: 3,081 since Jul 2011
Thanks Given: 980
Thanks Received: 5,785

I don't know if I showed this link previously, but here are free seasonal charts.

Seasonal Charts

Started this thread Reply With Quote

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
About a successful futures trader who didnt know anythin …
Psychology and Money Management
Cheap historycal L1 data for stocks
Stocks and ETFs
Trade idea based off three indicators.
Traders Hideout
Quantum physics & Trading dynamics
The Elite Circle
ZombieSqueeze
Platforms and Indicators
 
  #452 (permalink)
MJ888
Houston, Texas
 
Posts: 165 since Sep 2012
Thanks Given: 37
Thanks Received: 150


ron99 View Post
That premium may not sound like much but when you can make 25% per year in an IRA or trust account doing this trade all year, I'll be laughing to the bank. I don't know anywhere else you can make that kind of money. Year after year.

I have some money with a mutual fund. He wonders why I am not tickled pink at his 10% gain last year.

Ron99, I am in no way belittling the small amount of premium gained on your position. In fact I admire how disciplined and patient you are with your options selling. I am sure most people will be thrilled if they can make a few extra hundred bucks a month, I know I am.

And yes this is totally about ROI. At my last day job, my coworkers were all shocked when I decided NOT to contribute into the 401K plan. Just like you said Ron99, 8%-12% annual returns simply is not all that impressive. But most people like the "set it and forget it" ways of 401Ks and Mutual Funds.

MJ888

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #453 (permalink)
MJ888
Houston, Texas
 
Posts: 165 since Sep 2012
Thanks Given: 37
Thanks Received: 150


There is something I do not understand about how margin is calculated. As previously mentioned, I have an April CL strangle at 70P and 105C. I have had this position on for almost a month now. I have made 70% of the premium on the puts and I am at about break-even on the calls. A week ago, I showed a loss of about $500 on the calls when CL rallied cause of the Cliff agreement. My margin went up during that rally but now that things have settled down, the premium on the calls have also decreased. But for some reason, my margin is still at very high levels. I thought that as time goes by and more and more of the premium is decayed away, the margin should move lower since my potential profit has increased but that is obviously not the way it works at IB! In fact, I have noticed that IM and MM increases as we get closer and closer to expiration.

MJ888

Reply With Quote
  #454 (permalink)
 ron99 
Cleveland, OH
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Trading: Options on Futures
Posts: 3,081 since Jul 2011
Thanks Given: 980
Thanks Received: 5,785


MJ888 View Post
There is something I do not understand about how margin is calculated. As previously mentioned, I have an April CL strangle at 70P and 105C. I have had this position on for almost a month now. I have made 70% of the premium on the puts and I am at about break-even on the calls. A week ago, I showed a loss of about $500 on the calls when CL rallied cause of the Cliff agreement. My margin went up during that rally but now that things have settled down, the premium on the calls have also decreased. But for some reason, my margin is still at very high levels. I thought that as time goes by and more and more of the premium is decayed away, the margin should move lower since my potential profit has increased but that is obviously not the way it works at IB! In fact, I have noticed that IM and MM increases as we get closer and closer to expiration.

MJ888

On Jan 3rd SPAN was 2014 for that strangle. On Jan 7th it is 1944.

Started this thread Reply With Quote
  #455 (permalink)
MJ888
Houston, Texas
 
Posts: 165 since Sep 2012
Thanks Given: 37
Thanks Received: 150


ron99 View Post
On Jan 3rd SPAN was 2014 for that strangle. On Jan 7th it is 1944.

Thanks for the margin update. I just got my new account set up at OX and am using the Trade Calculator. Pretty awesome!

Reply With Quote
  #456 (permalink)
 Barrington 
Portland OR
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: None
Trading: Stocks
Posts: 56 since Dec 2012
Thanks Given: 87
Thanks Received: 31


MJ888 View Post
Thanks for the margin update. I just got my new account set up at OX and am using the Trade Calculator. Pretty awesome!

I got my OX account working too and I just checked the margin on Trade Calc. for the CL strangle you mentioned. Its showing $2,728.44 - Initial and $2,480.40 Maintenance. Are you getting the same numbers?

Reply With Quote
  #457 (permalink)
MJ888
Houston, Texas
 
Posts: 165 since Sep 2012
Thanks Given: 37
Thanks Received: 150

Yes, I got the same IM and MM numbers for that position at OX. At IB it would be IM $4,766 and MM would be $3,813

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #458 (permalink)
 
opts's Avatar
 opts 
NW Florida
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: OX and TOS
Trading: Futures Options, Stocks
Posts: 234 since Aug 2012
Thanks Given: 29
Thanks Received: 115

ron99:

Thanks for the seasonal chart link. I spend lots of time there and that is very valuable information.

Quick questions on RB options...

I've tried to sell a few in the past but have not had much luck with fills. Meaning my trade never was executed so I abandoned trying to trade that market. There seems to be a huge gap in the BID ASK even with options with high volume an OI and I did put a 'fair' BID in when trying to sell options. Can you pass along some of your well advised advice about how to approach selling RB options?

Thanks...again.

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #459 (permalink)
 ron99 
Cleveland, OH
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Trading: Options on Futures
Posts: 3,081 since Jul 2011
Thanks Given: 980
Thanks Received: 5,785


Barrington View Post
I got my OX account working too and I just checked the margin on Trade Calc. for the CL strangle you mentioned. Its showing $2,728.44 - Initial and $2,480.40 Maintenance. Are you getting the same numbers?

OX does not compute the correct margin for spreads or strangles for the first one. It does correctly compute the margin for all spreads or strangles after the first one.

For example it says 2728 for the one strangle. It says 5060 for 2. Or 2332 for the 2nd one. It will be 2332 for all strangles after the 1st one.

The problem happened when they bought out another firm that was calculating margin and merged it with their system which wasn't. When they merged it this is what happened. They didn't know it was happening until 2009 when I showed them the numbers.

They will have to rewrite their entire system to fix it. It isn't happening soon.

The weird thing is it works on some commodities and not others. I have a SB strangle on. It works on that. It works on futures spreads.

The only way to check it is to do the Trad Calc with quantity 1. Then do it again with 2 and see if the margin is doubled or less than double.

OX does change the excess they want over SPAN. I keep track of it in a spreadsheet. I compute the margin for my options in SPAN. Then I apply the extra that OX wants to know how much I need. I also use that to check ROI.

Started this thread Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #460 (permalink)
 ron99 
Cleveland, OH
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: QST
Broker: QST, DeCarley Trading, Gain
Trading: Options on Futures
Posts: 3,081 since Jul 2011
Thanks Given: 980
Thanks Received: 5,785



opts View Post
ron99:

Thanks for the seasonal chart link. I spend lots of time there and that is very valuable information.

Quick questions on RB options...

I've tried to sell a few in the past but have not had much luck with fills. Meaning my trade never was executed so I abandoned trying to trade that market. There seems to be a huge gap in the BID ASK even with options with high volume an OI and I did put a 'fair' BID in when trying to sell options. Can you pass along some of your well advised advice about how to approach selling RB options?

Thanks...again.

A lot of the time I am just hitting fair bids. Granted they are few and far between. Sometimes I do place an ask and get filled. Leave your bid on at the close of the pit. Sometimes the asks will get hit then by the pit traders. You do need to be in the options like 2.10, 2.20, 2.30. Not much if any action between those options.

Some months have more OI than others. Check OI. Dec is usually the one with the highest OI.

But the reality is that you won't be able to do many RB options.

Right now there is a 0.0016 bid in the Mar RB 2.20 put. Same price as settlement. Quantity one. I took it. You just have to pick them off.

If I am lacking options to trade I then will go to ES because there are plenty there.

Started this thread Reply With Quote




Last Updated on July 28, 2023


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts