Greeks work the most hours per day out of every country in the EU and 3rd most in the entire world. They are just not very productive but one thing Greeks are not, is lazy.



Greeks Work the Longest Hours in Europe

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/dec/08/europe-working-hours

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2015/03/13/contrary-to-what-most-people-think-greeks-work-the-longest-hours-in-europe-infographic/

George P 

Your reply is B.S. You try, unsuccessfully, to turn the black to white. You iINSAULTED ME AND MY PEOPLE. You didnt even said any "sorry" or any "apology". Specifically : 1) As I said you, Germany owns, today, to Greece more than 1 TRILLION euros as idemnifications from : a) the damages and general catastrophy that Greece suffered from your nazist people during the second World War and the assasination of more than 1 million Greeks during this war that German nazists started against Europe and Greece. Your people killed my father and executed many of my relatives in the Greek village "Kalavrita". This is History. You cannot change it. b) the money and the total Greek gold that your nazist people (Hitler, etc.) robbed from the Bank of Greece. This is History. c) the damages during the first WW. This is History. d) the damages and value from the stealing of our vast archeological treasures from our Museums that your people committed againt my country. 2) The idemnification from the assasination of 1 million Greeks that Germans killed in my country (during the 2nd WW). Really, how much "costs" one person's life ? You said that you paid 4.000 euros for Greece. You paid NOTHING. Have you considered how much you owe me because your ancestors (maybe yr father, who knows...) killed my father ? somebody from your people is responsible for the assasination of my father, but , anyway, you now must idemnify me; and you know how much ? 10 trillion euros . This is the price I ask for my father. Pay me now ! For the said amount that you owe to Greece there are many Greek official papers and official claims (from Greek authorities and Greek Parliament) that have been sent to you goverment. But Germany denies to pay Greece. Why ? Because this is what he wants so ! All these attachments of your reply is B.S. I can show you other papers showing the opposite elements. EU is B.S. EU is German colony. Germany tries to conquer Europe imposing finacial dictatorship to European countries. Brittish understood this and got out of EU. And they did very well. And the same will do Greece, shortly. The bottom line : Are you going to pay the 1 TRILLION euros you owe to Greece or not? I already asked you but you escaped from answering. The reason? You dont want to pay. And, in addition, you (personally) move your finger to Greek people and insulted my people by saying that "Greeks are ... lazy !". Pay first Greece, and, after, ask Greece to pay this illegal debt that actually saved German and French banks. 3) In 1953 the winner countries (among them was Greece Greece) of the 2nd WW agreed to delete more than 50% of the Germany's debt and the rest of this debt to be paid after Germany's economic growth (by 5% for 10 consecutive yeras, if I remember well) andafter reunion of West and East Germany. The winner countries(including my destried country, Greece) were very magnanimus and extremely tolerant to Germany, a country of nasists barbarians, who spread death to millions of European people, brought the disaster to other peaceful European countries , killed million people to crematoriums ( Greeks, Jews, Serbians, Polands, French, etc..) in Aousvitch, and other ... "Hotels of Death". Do you remember that ? Do I have to send you videos and photografs of these crimes to refresh yr memory ?? Greece agreed at that time (1953) to this extremely beneficial (to Germany) aggrement and deleted more than 50% of the total Germany's debt. Because of that Greece's aggreement Germany developed afterwards it's economy and stood in his feet. But, now, Germany, refuses to make the same to Greece and at the same time tries again to conquer the rest of Europe with his economic weapons. What, Germany, did not succeeded to conquer with the power of his arms (during the 2ng WW), tries to conquer with his economic power in recent days. But if Germany pays what ows to Greece (>1 TRILLION euros) will automatically collapse. So, pay NOW 1 trillion euros to Greece, and then Greece will pay its debt. If you dont pay us you will get NOTHING. The rest will be discussed in International Courts. 4) You (personally) try to gain some sympathy from the audience of this forum, by saying that you have friends in Greece, that you did not insulted Greek people (on the contrary : YOU INSAULTED ME AND MY PEOPLE by calling us "lazy", etc.), that your ancestors did nothing bad during the 2nd WW (who believes that ? there is no evidence of that ), and other blah blah and excuses. It's the same/common "story" from people who want us to forgive and forget the criminal actions of your country against the humanity. Germany committed genocides of many European countries (Greeks, Jews, Polands, Serrbians, etc). As I said you, since Germany lost TWO World Wars (for which was the only responsible) it should have been divided to small land pieces, and all the winner countries (including Greece) should have taken a German piece of land, and the defeated Germans should have been guided as slaves to every country in order to work (without money) from the morning until the night in order to rebuild what their nazist bombs destroyed during the 2nd WW and until they pay their debts. This should have been done and pay fot the catastrophy, disasters and assasinations they committed to million of innocent European people. That said, you dont have any right to speak about Greece and not to move yr finger to my people. I hope I made my self clear. --

Dude...want a hug??

Not being bad here but I reminded of my birthday on the 4th of August when I was in Australia with my Greek girlfriend (born and moved when she was 8) and her large and extraordinarily Greek family..

I remember eventually having to light my own birthday candles as they were locked in a terrific argument.

I recall singing happy birthday to myself and walking through the living room with my cake, they barely paused to finish the song with me before re-entering a pitched battle argument that lasted another hour until a group left the house very theatrically.

My big fat Greek birthday (because I ate half the cake in boredom).

Of course this was all in Greek, I shall however read up on Ioannis Metaxas tonight as my evening education. European history is indeed very layered and complex, takes a while to scrape away the layers to get a balanced sense.

rleplae 

I can give you a very good example which i know from first hand. I had customers in Greece and i traveled many times to Greece, so i think i know a little bit the country and the culture. On one of my trips, i had noticed it several times, but at that point in time my curiosity was too high. You often see in Greece houses with metal (supposed to be in compound) peeking out of the building (typical the roof). I asked one of my local partners there, what was that reason.. He explained it very briefly : "if you build a home, then you pay the VAT on the home when it's finished, so many houses, are 'never' finished the metals are a sign of that there is still a part to come... and that consequently the VAT is not yet due.. In most of all the other EU countries, you pay VAT on every part, and consequently every partly invoice, you can build 100 years, but you will pay VAT pro rata the progress... just one example, as @Fat Tails mentioned, national sport.. can't blame the people, the system was made for it.. we all would do the same... Of course, that has derailed the finances of the country, with all known consequences. Unfair that the rest of European people need to pick up (part of) the bill for that

"... you pay the VAT on the home when it's finished, so many houses, are 'never' finished the metals are a sign of that there is still a part to come... and that consequently the VAT is not yet due.." == This is an absolute lie (specially about the the VAT). The truth is that in Greece VAT is being paid by everybody in due time in construction business and
on every partlly invoice as in other EU countries. The metals that you see rarely on the top of very few old houses are iron bars extensions of the reinforced concrete skeleton of the house that are "awaiting" to be embeded in future concrete columns when a the owner of the house will decide in the future to construct an extension in height on top of the already finished house. This is common engineering practice not only in Greece but in many other countries as well. This has nothing to do with VAT paid during the construction of the existing houses. What a fantasy !! I understand you are not Engineer (I am). You should have found something more realistic to blame my country. So much poison ??? Oh, I forgot, machinations are the speciality of some people. With these (and other) machinations they crusified our Lord, Jesus Christ !! Forunately, our houses are not in danger from the Israelis bombs (as Palestinians' houses...).

George P 

"... you pay the VAT on the home when it's finished, so many houses, are 'never' finished the metals are a sign of that there is still a part to come... and that consequently the VAT is not yet due.." == This is an absolute lie (specially about the the VAT). The truth is that in Greece VAT is being paid by everybody in due time in construction business and on every partlly invoice as in other EU countries. The metals that you see rarely on the top of very few old houses are iron bars extensions of the reinforced concrete skeleton of the house that are "awaiting" to be embeded in future concrete columns when a the owner of the house will decide in the future to construct an extension in height on top of the already finished house. This is common engineering practice not only in Greece but in many other countries as well. This has nothing to do with VAT paid during the construction of the existing houses. What a fantasy !! I understand you are not Engineer (I am). You should have found something more realistic to blame my country. So much poison ??? Oh, I forgot, machinations are the speciality of some people. With these (and other) machinations they crusified our Lord, Jesus Christ !! Forunately, our houses are not in danger from the Israelis bombs (as Palestinians' houses...).

For clarity, I am talking period 2002-2004
The Greek local guy, would not say that to me, if it were not the genuine reason...
Things may have changed in the meantime as you explained in line with other county's common practise

There was/is no poison in my answer.
But your answer is slightly offensive.

But your point is taken, and correction accepted, that today it is no longer the case, VAT due pro-rata progress

choke35 

"The tribal wisdom of Dakota Indians, passed on from generation to generation, says that, when you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount. In modern government, however, a whole range of far more advanced strategies is often employed, such as: ◾Buying a stronger whip ◾Changing riders ◾Threatening the horse with termination ◾Appointing a committee to study the horse ◾Arranging a visit to other countries to see how others ride a dead horse ◾Lowering the standard so that dead horses can be included ◾Re-classifying the dead horse as “living impaired” ◾Hiring outside contractors to ride the dead horse ◾Harnessing several dead horses together to increase the speed ◾Providing additional funding and/or training to increase the dead horse’s performance ◾Doing a productivity study to see if lighter riders improve the dead horse’s performance ◾Declaring that, as the dead horse does not have to be fed, it is less costly, carries lower overhead and, therefore, contributes substantially more to the bottom line of the economy than do some other horses ◾Re-writing the expected performance requirements for all horses ◾Promoting the dead horse to a supervisory position. ..." I don't know how many of these strategies you count that have been adopted to Greece, I count several ...

Greece will never die. Others maybe . ( Η Ελλάδα ποτέ δέν πεθαίνει, μόνο λίγο καιρό ξαποσταίνει καί ξανά πρός τή δόξα τραβά ...). Dont have this illusion. We have the biggest natural gas (and oil) reservoirs in the world in Aegean sea, in Ionion sea and in Crete (discovered very recently). We have enough energy to sell to Europe (to cover it's energy needs) for the next 150-200 years ! So, who is the "Dead horse" ?? Shake yr head !!!

Fat Tails 

European History has a lot of pitfalls. And nearly every country in Europe suffered from the deeds of Nazi criminals. However, if you look at Greek government debt, it was about 25% of GDP in 1980. From 1980 to 2016 it has risen from 25% to 180%. And this is of course the fault of the Germans, in particular the Nazi Germans prior to 1945. Very difficult with this approach to reconciliate the nations of Europe. Don't you think that your explanation is too simple? I do not trust in populists.

If you had paid the 1 TRILLION

Fat Tails 

European History has a lot of pitfalls. And nearly every country in Europe suffered from the deeds of Nazi criminals. However, if you look at Greek government debt, it was about 25% of GDP in 1980. From 1980 to 2016 it has risen from 25% to 180%. And this is of course the fault of the Germans, in particular the Nazi Germans prior to 1945. Very difficult with this approach to reconciliate the nations of Europe. Don't you think that your explanation is too simple? I do not trust in populists.

Fat Tails View Post
European History has a lot of pitfalls.

And nearly every country in Europe suffered from the deeds of Nazi criminals.


However, if you look at Greek government debt, it was about 25% of GDP in 1980.

From 1980 to 2016 it has risen from 25% to 180%.

And this is of course the fault of the Germans, in particular the Nazi Germans prior to 1945.

Very difficult with this approach to reconciliate the nations of Europe.


Don't you think that your explanation is too simple?

I do not trust in populists.

If you had paid the 1 the TRILLION EUROS Germany ows to Greece , and if you did not ruined Greece (during the 2nd WW) Greece would never wouldbe in the necessity to get these loans. Pay now !! and we will pay our (legal) debts. Pay trillions for the Greek soles (of the dead people) you killed. You dont want to pay? You will be obliged to pay. You will never escape from this payment. Not all the todays Greece's debt is legal. Legal is only the 10% of this "debt". Besides, Greece, very recently discovered the largest (in the planet) natural gas (and oil) reservoirs in our Aegean sea, Ionian sea , in Crete, and in various inland places. Germany wants to steal these reservoirs and our natural resourses and treasures. You will not make it. We will defend ourselves with the power of our weapons and the power of our soles. It's the same Spartans and Leonidas' souls which fought Persians in Thermopyles and in Marathon and defeated barbarians and saved Europe at that time. They are the same souls that defeated Germans in the 2nd WW together with the other allied winner countries (USA, UK, Australians, NZ, French, etc). Winston Churchill said, very wisely, that " we must bombard Germany every 50 years -- they know the reason...). This is History. This reality. This is the truth. This is not "populism", as you dared to say !. If you dont know what to say you just reply "...this is polulism...). Is that so ? Make no mistake, we are not let Germany to invent and develop economic weapons (like" debt machinations") and impose dictatorship for 3rd time in Europe and destroy the whole word. You must apologise for your today's (and past) criminal actions against Europe and against the rest of the world (and certainly against Greece). And you must pay your HUGE debt to Greece. NOW! But even if you do all these things you will never be able to bring back ourt beloved ones that you assasinated and you continue to assasinate. You killed 30.000++ people the last 7 years in my country (they suicide themselves because of the huge taxes that have been imposed to them and the new economic catastrophy you brought again to Greece due to the stealing "memorandums" from troika and yours Mr. Soible and your goverment). You, again, destroy my country and kill my people. The damage so far in another 1 TRILLION euros that Germany must pay to Greece. You destroy people and you seem that you do not understand/realise what you are doing ! But very soon, I forsee, that you will take another lesson, once again. I suggest you (personally) not to be so ironic, provoking, offensive and insulting my people. Please dont play the "smart guy" in politics and History. You are good to trading business, but you crossed the "line". It's better for you to shut up and implement what Greek Philosophy dictates : " Sometimes, silence is gold". -

George P 

It's better for you to shut up and implement what Greek Philosophy dictates : " Sometimes, silence is gold". -

Before you go on rehashing ideological BS, I'd suggest you follow your own device.
My 2ct.

George P 

If you had paid the 1 the TRILLION EUROS Germany ows to Greece , and if you did not ruined Greece (during the 2nd WW) Greece would never wouldbe in the necessity to get these loans. Pay now !! and we will pay our (legal) debts. Pay trillions for the Greek soles (of the dead people) you killed. You dont want to pay? You will be obliged to pay. You will never escape from this payment. Not all the todays Greece's debt is legal. Legal is only the 10% of this "debt". Besides, Greece, very recently discovered the largest (in the planet) natural gas (and oil) reservoirs in our Aegean sea, Ionian sea , in Crete, and in various inland places. Germany wants to steal these reservoirs and our natural resourses and treasures. You will not make it. We will defend ourselves with the power of our weapons and the power of our soles. It's the same Spartans and Leonidas' souls which fought Persians in Thermopyles and in Marathon and defeated barbarians and saved Europe at that time. They are the same souls that defeated Germans in the 2nd WW together with the other allied winner countries (USA, UK, Australians, NZ, French, etc). Winston Churchill said, very wisely, that " we must bombard Germany every 50 years -- they know the reason...). This is History. This reality. This is the truth. This is not "populism", as you dared to say !. If you dont know what to say you just reply "...this is polulism...). Is that so ? Make no mistake, we are not let Germany to invent and develop economic weapons (like" debt machinations") and impose dictatorship for 3rd time in Europe and destroy the whole word. You must apologise for your today's (and past) criminal actions against Europe and against the rest of the world (and certainly against Greece). And you must pay your HUGE debt to Greece. NOW! But even if you do all these things you will never be able to bring back ourt beloved ones that you assasinated and you continue to assasinate. You killed 30.000++ people the last 7 years in my country (they suicide themselves because of the huge taxes that have been imposed to them and the new economic catastrophy you brought again to Greece due to the stealing "memorandums" from troika and yours Mr. Soible and your goverment). You, again, destroy my country and kill my people. The damage so far in another 1 TRILLION euros that Germany must pay to Greece. You destroy people and you seem that you do not understand/realise what you are doing ! But very soon, I forsee, that you will take another lesson, once again. I suggest you (personally) not to be so ironic, provoking, offensive and insulting my people. Please dont play the "smart guy" in politics and History. You are good to trading business, but you crossed the "line". It's better for you to shut up and implement what Greek Philosophy dictates : " Sometimes, silence is gold". -

George,


The root of nazism was nationalism and chauvinism. We should not start this all over again.

We should leave some of the ghosts of the past where they belong.

I am not going to argue with you.