Aurac 

This is the best answer that has ever being given, is being given and will ever being given on what it means to have an impeccable edge. Just using this information alone is enough to significantly reduce the space of vendor promoted trading systems. Unfortunately you need to kiss a lot of frogs before this information can be experientially integrated because just saying it is not enough.

Totally true. "Kiss a lot of frogs" is both exactly right on and complete hilarious.

By the way, does your post show an enormous blank space on your browser? It does on mine, right after the emoji. Possibly there is something strange going on with that emoji. Could you try editing the emoji out of the post to see?

Thanks.

Bob.

bobwest 

Totally true. "Kiss a lot of frogs" is both exactly right on and complete hilarious. By the way, does your post show an enormous blank space on your browser? It does on mine, right after the emoji. Possibly there is something strange going on with that emoji. Could you try editing the emoji out of the post to see? Thanks. Bob.

Edited and thanks

I haven't read every post on this thread but I assume most people here know the story of the Turtles?

In December 1983, renowned Chicago trader Richard Dennis made a bet with a colleague, Bill Eckhart, that he could teach absolutely anyone to master the futures market.

https://traderlife.co.uk/features/lunch-break-reads/the-amazing-story-of-richard-dennis-and-the-turtle-traders/

i can't tell you how many times, while struggling with my own "perfectly good" (not perfect) system to continually grind out a profit that it would be so much more profitable to package the thing up and sell it...
automation, automation, automation is my mantra "to solve my whole problem" (the psychological one) and cure my futures trading woes...
but i still haven't automated it...
why ?
because like most traders i can't get my discipline together...

had my discipline been together i could have traded anyone's system and be that 8 figure account holder...

someone more eloquently put it much earlier in this thread...
sure i could sell my system but the hundreds of folks i sell it to will have the same problem trading it i do...

when i follow it i do well...

shoot, i almost left the whole setup, lemme think about it a bit...

trepidation 

If you found the Holy Grail, would you share it with the world? By Holy Grail, all I mean is a system or methodology that can consistently yield profits in all market conditions however it does it and also make a good ROI. Would you ask for compensation? I once bought a course and to this day I'm haunted by what this popular guru let accidently slip. He said that these days he was too busy teaching to actually trade. Think about that for a minute. He was living off of other people's hopes and dreams and in doing so was living their dreams. So far there've been alot of people that have been trying to sell the dream of systems and strategies or even signals that make bank. These days I've seen an evolution in the landscape where people try to sell the idea that you can't get rich quick and instead they sell another dream via support groups or training. To me, both of these types of people are feeding off the dreams of other people. That isn't to say they don't produce value, but if they created an absurd amount of value they would be renown across the internet. Just as this is two sides of a coin, so too is the question of the Holy Grail. On one side there's the idea of a self-fulfilling prophecy (candlestick patterns) and on the other there's this idea of alpha decay where the more people that know, the less effective your edge becomes (arbitraging). What are your thoughts?

ASKING THE BIG, BOLD QUESTIONS, HUH? lol

There's so much most of us could say about just the question itself.

Definition of "the Holy Grail" varies per trader. Some traders say they are
happy if they can make a couple hundred bucks per trading day. Others
need $10k to satisfy their egos

I've found my Holy Grail but it's so complex, there's no way I could provide
it for you. I've posted some recommendations on Cost Basis management
and Incremental Profit Taking in the NASDAQ using a LIFO accounting
approach; and that's certainly a valuable component of "survival" and
then "thrival" (i.e. "thriving") in the sense of having more of a "no surprises"
daily monotonically increasing equity, without the usual huge fluctuations
in account balance.

Certainly, I'd say 3 things: 1) specialize, 2) specialize and 3) specialize in
a very very specific niche; and stop thinking "the grass is greener over there"
in the usual perpetual search which Traders are prone to.

In my case, I work only 1 thing: The NASDAQ futures contract. Am I missing
other opportunities? maybe I need Options? maybe the ES contract would
be better/safer? So many questions. THOSE QUESTIONS ARE UNPRODUCTIVE,
and you would be best advised to stick with only 1 thing that you trade
for a living; becoming the "specialist"...

Since capitalization is a big issue; working with a "prop firm" such as
LeeLoo Trading is also a big factor; thus acquiring the "Buying Power"
you need to be able to trade properly; but I always hesitate to make such
commercial recommendations, even though I believe it's a major part
of "getting properly into the game"...

Hope this helps a little.

hyperscalper

stafay 

i can't tell you how many times, while struggling with my own "perfectly good" (not perfect) system to continually grind out a profit that it would be so much more profitable to package the thing up and sell it... automation, automation, automation is my mantra "to solve my whole problem" (the psychological one) and cure my futures trading woes... but i still haven't automated it... why ? because like most traders i can't get my discipline together... had my discipline been together i could have traded anyone's system and be that 8 figure account holder... someone more eloquently put it much earlier in this thread... sure i could sell my system but the hundreds of folks i sell it to will have the same problem trading it i do... when i follow it i do well... shoot, i almost left the whole setup, lemme think about it a bit...

And thus the problem is not finding something that works in the market... but rather something that works AND is compatible with one's own personality. Then, I find, discipline comes naturally. In fact, it does not even come into play, as doing the 'right thing' is the easiest thing in the world.

Anagami 

And thus the problem is not finding something that works in the market... but rather something that works AND is compatible with one's own personality. Then, I find, discipline comes naturally. In fact, it does not even come into play, as doing the 'right thing' is the easiest thing in the world.

Which is why no purchased system ever helps anyone, and why selling or even giving away your Holy Grail will benefit no one who acquires. it.

It's so hard to learn such an easy thing.

Bob.

bobwest 

Which is why no purchased system ever helps anyone, and why selling or even giving away your Holy Grail will benefit no one who acquires. it. It's so hard to learn such an easy thing. Bob.

I think there is definitely some room to benefit from the approaches used by others, but you gotta make them your own (entries, exits, position sizing, the markets traded, timeframes...etc.). Having said, yes, trading somebody else's method 'as is', is a recipe for inner conflict and frustration (and ultimately lack of success).

bobwest 

Which is why no purchased system ever helps anyone, and why selling or even giving away your Holy Grail will benefit no one who acquires. it. It's so hard to learn such an easy thing. Bob.

Such a good observation.

I've always said that phrase "Learning to Trade", something so many wannabe
traders use; implies that before you "learn" you are losing; and then once
you finally "learn to trade" then you're OK.

Obviously, learning something new, never stops. The wise trader
welcomes new perspectives, even though she may be doing pretty
well. A good Trader candidate is someone who accepts that a "quest"
is a lifetime effort.

In fact, it's a perpetual process of perfecting many subskills, not the least
of which are psychological in nature; and all that needs to "come together"
within the mind of the trader.

Not that I think it's spiritual... but consider that "becoming a Master" is a
never-ending quest; which refines a multitude of individual factors toward
a goal... Just sayin'...

[EDIT] having said all of that, I do plan to unleash a Trading Bot; and that
means using specific micro-edges which the Bot is able to execute; and that's
not so much a "human" method of making money, so isn't that relevant here.

hyperscalper

Anagami 

I think there is definitely some room to benefit from the approaches used by others, but you gotta make them your own (entries, exits, position sizing, the markets traded, timeframes...etc.). Having said, yes, trading somebody else's method 'as is', is a recipe for inner conflict and frustration (and ultimately lack of success).

Agreed. No one starts with just a blank chart and no idea what to do. Taking others' ideas and working with them is the only way to move ahead. But even if you become their carbon copy, it's the work you do with it that makes it yours, and that's when it can start to perform for you.

At that point, it may be a Holy Grail for you, but it's no longer what they sold or gave you, it's your own work now.

And sure, we can help each other, and hopefully we do.

Bob.