thw333333 

I can count on something north of $400k from futures trading and that does not include income from long-term positions in stocks or any other investments. Not sure if that is of any worth to your question, but I did enjoy reading this thread. I will not be showing statements, lol. I stop trading in mid June and then resume after Labor Day. My secret weapon (besides experience) is capitalization. My comfort zone is having a HUGE cushion. I trade daily at the open. Some days done in 5 minutes, some days nursing a drawdown till 10pm. I bought a vacation home on the south shore of Nova Scotia (and then Canada wouldn't let me in without vax, which I refused). I also have a home in S. Florida and one in Highlands, NC. Futures gave us the capital to go big in BTC in 2015, even though I was not nearly as consistent in my trading back then. Futures took me a LONG time to learn, but has been very good to me and my family. I love trading, but I would not love it if money were tight or I was trading to pay rent or something like that. I cannot imagine trading on a mobile app. That would be impossible for me and very risky / foolish. Biggest challenge: lower back pain from sitting too long.

I agree with you on capitalization being the key.

I know you don't want to get specific, but can you tell us what range is your capitalization? Just an idea of what you need to generate that income. Thanks!

Joseph Connors 

I agree with you on capitalization being the key. I know you don't want to get specific, but can you tell us what range is your capitalization? Just an idea of what you need to generate that income. Thanks!

Hello Joseph Connors,

Can I charm here on capitalization?

Trading the futures market, I would say about $100K to $500K needed for trading rather discretionary trading or systematic trading. There is no way around it, it takes alot of money in the future market to make alot money in the futures market.

Having a large capital allows me to take great risk/gamble at right times where I feel I can make alot of money on just this one bet. Then I can decrease my risk amount on certain times per plan.

If we try to trade Micros, the reward is too small for the effort. Unless aiming at big profits.

IMO, growing the account to big money is the most hardest part of trading, it is not the actual trading.

Joseph Connors 

I agree with you on capitalization being the key. I know you don't want to get specific, but can you tell us what range is your capitalization? Just an idea of what you need to generate that income. Thanks!

Hi Joseph. I use way more capital than I need. That said, there is a point even in my mind when enough is enough and every single cent over that point is withdrawn to be deployed elsewhere. I have enough capital at all times to trade comfortably at least twice as many contracts as I intend to trade and for those to enter some kind of black swan draw-down event (zombie apocalypse) where I am down 50 handles or more. That has never happened. I day trade and almost never hold anything past the close. Something has gone way wrong if I am in overnight. So I am split between two brokers and keep about 300K in each one.

I'm enslaved to my comfort zones, a big one is being flat at close. I have started to get interested in trading the daily or weekly chart, but I really struggle with stress. I can put on a ton of risk intraday, but hold for a week and I become like a newbie wetting his pants.

thw333333 

Hi Joseph. I use way more capital than I need. That said, there is a point even in my mind when enough is enough and every single cent over that point is withdrawn to be deployed elsewhere. I have enough capital at all times to trade comfortably at least twice as many contracts as I intend to trade and for those to enter some kind of black swan draw-down event (zombie apocalypse) where I am down 50 handles or more. That has never happened. I day trade and almost never hold anything past the close. Something has gone way wrong if I am in overnight. So I am split between two brokers and keep about 300K in each one. I'm enslaved to my comfort zones, a big one is being flat at close. I have started to get interested in trading the daily or weekly chart, but I really struggle with stress. I can put on a ton of risk intraday, but hold for a week and I become like a newbie wetting his pants.

Thanks a lot for the candid response. I really appreciate it!

kevinkdog 

Is that 400K annual? Curious, what kind of % return and % max drawdown do you normally have?

Hey @thw333333 not sure if you saw this post, but can you answer? It might be nice for people to calibrate themselves to some real world experience...

THANKS

Haven't tracked either one of those for a long time, though of course they are tracked by my brokers. DD varies wildly, but usually is not more than $1K per contract in any given month. There are times it has been much higher. I sometimes stay in against my rules if I have a strong belief that a better exit will present itself. Mean reversion is a factor in day trading and that affects how much DD I can tolerate. This is the reason for being well capitalized. About once a year I will find myself down 30 handles per contract. Hate those days, but know that is part of it. I am prepared for at least 50, but it hasn't come to that. The way I trade is discretionary and it works for me and my situation. It is not something others should emulate as everyone's situation is different.

At least 400K annual is what I need to keep my world afloat. Varies a lot depending on mkts, my needs, how much I am trading, scaling etc. 2020 was much higher-- covid crash and I was buying / furnishing a house. I probably shouldn't have mentioned income levels. On a whim I just responded to the guy's post who seemed frustrated.

KyronC 

Can anyone actually prove to me that they have been consistently growing their account with futures? (ES,RTY,NQ,GC,CL) So far I'm yet to meet someone who is making money who isn't trying to sell me something :/

I've come to think it's very very few. While that chatGPT answer post some pages back said "95%" have losses , I think of that remaining 5% most of them manage to maybe break-even in their entire trading lifetimes, so that leaves so very few who are able to make actual profits over time. It's like individual sports perhaps at the highest level , possibly only a few thousand or ten thousand at best in the entire world of retail trading , maybe as low as 0.01% of the entire retail trading population any given year are able to make decent enough profits for a year, and that's not guaranteed for each year similar to a top tier individual pro sportsman career. Anything can happen in that sports career which is precarious for any given year or period, with possible injuries , or loss of confidence, loss of maintained discipline, or loss of edge, in performance, so retail trading to me seems so similar in some of those respects.

For myself I once had a 100k+ year in trading profits before covid. I haven't been able to repeat that level. There's always losers, and having to deal with being wrong and plenty of losing trades, any given day, any given week, something that the snakeoil vendors never bother to mention to the newbies that are snared every year or month into their selling dreams bogus trading teaching "businesses".

kevinkdog 

Hey @thw333333 not sure if you saw this post, but can you answer? It might be nice for people to calibrate themselves to some real world experience... THANKS

Good Morning kevinkdog,

I agree Kevin. That is one thing I learned from you, Yearly Profits and Yearly Drawdown to get those profits are brothers and sisters, can not talk about one without the other.

Profit and lost is what you accept or make excuses for in ones trading system.