beske 

My statement from 4/2 was corrected, so nothing on that. The statement from 5/2 was also corrected but wrongfully. I had an up day but they stated that I had a down day on positions I did not take. My two "real" trades were not on it. I did close automatically opened positions on Friday. Today 8/2 I did trade (3 trades in the green). I hope it didn't affect anything. I didn't know that it was best not to trade. I reported everything to NT and PC. I really hope they resolve the issue... Grtz...

Hi guys

A quick update.

Ninjatrader Brokerage and PC corrected the wrong statement and added the wrongfully lost amount back to my account without any further discussion.

I think they resolved the matter professionally and correct.

I hope you had the same experience.

Grtz

Beske

beske 

Hi guys A quick update. Ninjatrader Brokerage and PC corrected the wrong statement and added the wrongfully lost amount back to my account without any further discussion. I think they resolved the matter professionally and correct. I hope you had the same experience. Grtz Beske

Can confirm. Got an email stating that the loss will be refunded today; shown under “Trade Error Refund” in the daily statement.
NT brokerage handled this very well in the end. Confidence in NTB restored

bobwest 

I would note that the head of @NinjaTrader has publicly committed to reimburse all the NinjaTrader customers affected by this situation. I would hold your outrage until there is more cause for it. I'm not minimizing the frustration nor the feeling of upset, but the firm has made a public commitment to its customers, which should count for something. Also, everyone should make sure they are following the recommended procedures that have been laid out in this thread for contacting NT about their issues, and in particular, not to trade to offset the erroneous balances they found on their statements, which can only make the situation more complicated to unwind. Again, I am not a representative of NinjaTrader or Phillips, just someone who has tried to stay on top of things in this thread. Anyone with an issue should be in contact with Ninja directly. Bob.

i have a NT account and use Phillips. However, I did not have a problem with my account. I did not have any trades recorded with errors. but I want to say it is wonderful to see NT stand up and say they will reimburse all those who did have problems. I feel much better about my broker NT. God Bless NT and all their people. and i guess Phillips also if they are joining with NT to support the customers on this problem.

I just wanted to add the idea that not all clients here ran into a problem. thank god i did not. I really feel for those who had problems.

I know back in the old days of floor traders this was common. and the solution back then was to pass the losses around to the floor traders to absorb. and a lot of innocent floor traders accepted losses made by other traders. the books had to be balanced every day. it was one of the risks a floor trader used to take. there were some larger floor traders who took very large losses to help cover errors.

however if they found the floor trader who refused to accept his losses and lied to avoid the losses he was shunned. and no one would trade with him again. so he was sort of pushed out of the business. you can not have people who refuse to accept their losses who were responsible for them. often just lying saying they never made the bad trade. things are much better now with computers running more of the show.

back in the old days commissions for trading were super large. i remember back in 1968 paying $75 commissions on a one lot trade. and no one had even imagined having software to watch price back then. not even the big brokers. even companies did not have computers. then in 1980 there was one discount firm changing the low price of only $25 a contract. now they claim commissions under $1, much of that has to be due to the efficiency of computers. errors are now very rare. but i guess they did happen. once the computer error is fixed the error should not happen again.

I would not be hard on the companies. they have done a wonderful job of helping the trader with reduced cost of commissions and graphics software available to help the trader trade better. this is an effort of everyone. over time into the future it only keeps getting better.

I am still awaiting a "decision" to be made between NT / PC. I am hoping my delay is stemmed from the fact that I didnt see any of the warning emails until after closing an invalid position. This also meant I traded during 2/4 & 2/5, potentially making all of this more difficult to reconcile. Now after receiving the first set of corrected statements, everything seemed to line up with my account so I thought I was good to trade on 2/9. After 2/9 and the final set of corrected statements, I found that everything was not fine, and I should'nt have been trading at all. Not sure what to trust in terms of statements, and at this point my memory of those trade days are biased.

I took a loss from the results of me closing the invalid position, as it pushed me into a short once the invalid long went away, and I was immediately upside down ~10 points. But the other concerning issue arises from the correction of 2/5 from a profitable day, into a loss incurring day.

Not sure how this is going to shake out, but this certainly reminds me of murphy's law and now I know how to handle account issues moving forward. I will say that NT has maintained communication, albeit vague communication, and because I did continue to trade, this is taking time to sort out. Hopefully there will be some reconciliation, as I am willing to accept some responsibility on my part I am not expecting for my account to go back to where it was 2/4 / 2/5.

I, too, was impacted by the Phillip Capital fiasco. A successful rogue trade on Feb. 4th showed me up almost $9,000 and I immediately closed the position. I woke up the next morning and I showed I was down nearly $2,000 and closed the position again. It wasn't until after closing the second position that I noticed an email advising not to take any action and to contact NinjaTrader.

After receiving a "corrected" statement, Phillip Capital ended up not recognizing the gain, but only adjusted my account down after recognizing the $2,000 loss. I sent an email to NinjaTrader explaining what my account balance was before the rogue trades. When I contacted NinjaTrader support, they scolded me like I was a child. It really pissed me off at their attitudes. They told me that because I had acted on trades that I had not initiated, I accepted responsibility for my position...but Phillip Capital seemed to only recognize the losing trade.

I did not hear from anyone until today, where they claim they are reimbursing me and putting my account back to where it was before the rogue trades.

I am happy with that. That is the right thing to do. I just wish they had kept in closer touch with me.

I would like to see better messaging if this type of thing happens again. Rather than merely say take no action, they should significantly expand their announcement by saying "Don't close or do anything else with your account and call this number (XXX) XXX-XXXX so NinjaTrader can fix it. Otherwise you may be responsible for the trade..." - Something on this order.

jyonan 

I, too, was impacted by the Phillip Capital fiasco. A successful rogue trade on Feb. 4th showed me up almost $9,000 and I immediately closed the position. I woke up the next morning and I showed I was down nearly $2,000 and closed the position again. It wasn't until after closing the second position that I noticed an email advising not to take any action and to contact NinjaTrader. After receiving a "corrected" statement, Phillip Capital ended up not recognizing the gain, but only adjusted my account down after recognizing the $2,000 loss. I sent an email to NinjaTrader explaining what my account balance was before the rogue trades. When I contacted NinjaTrader support, they scolded me like I was a child. It really pissed me off at their attitudes. They told me that because I had acted on trades that I had not initiated, I accepted responsibility for my position...but Phillip Capital seemed to only recognize the losing trade. I did not hear from anyone until today, where they claim they are reimbursing me and putting my account back to where it was before the rogue trades. I am happy with that. That is the right thing to do. I just wish they had kept in closer touch with me. I would like to see better messaging if this type of thing happens again. Rather than merely say take no action, they should significantly expand their announcement by saying "Don't close or do anything else with your account and call this number (XXX) XXX-XXXX so NinjaTrader can fix it. Otherwise you may be responsible for the trade..." - Something on this order.

Glad to hear NT is refunding you the losses. I'm still waiting on mine but the more I read about others getting their money back, the more respect I have for NT. I hope I hear back from them soon.

jyonan 

I, too, was impacted by the Phillip Capital fiasco. A successful rogue trade on Feb. 4th showed me up almost $9,000 and I immediately closed the position. I woke up the next morning and I showed I was down nearly $2,000 and closed the position again. It wasn't until after closing the second position that I noticed an email advising not to take any action and to contact NinjaTrader. After receiving a "corrected" statement, Phillip Capital ended up not recognizing the gain, but only adjusted my account down after recognizing the $2,000 loss. I sent an email to NinjaTrader explaining what my account balance was before the rogue trades. When I contacted NinjaTrader support, they scolded me like I was a child. It really pissed me off at their attitudes. They told me that because I had acted on trades that I had not initiated, I accepted responsibility for my position...but Phillip Capital seemed to only recognize the losing trade. I did not hear from anyone until today, where they claim they are reimbursing me and putting my account back to where it was before the rogue trades. I am happy with that. That is the right thing to do. I just wish they had kept in closer touch with me. I would like to see better messaging if this type of thing happens again. Rather than merely say take no action, they should significantly expand their announcement by saying "Don't close or do anything else with your account and call this number (XXX) XXX-XXXX so NinjaTrader can fix it. Otherwise you may be responsible for the trade..." - Something on this order.

This is more or less the same situation I am in, much smaller amounts. I didnt see the emails until after I closed the rogue position, and had traded for two days likely with bad account data prior to this (Not by much, but enough that my strategy testing was using E Mini's instead of micros. I am still awaiting a response, and currently this has wiped out my small development account.

@jyonan sorry for your losses. Trading is tough enough without having to deal with issues like this. Not trying to single out you here, but trying to address what I consider to be a common misconception. With regards to this comment

jyonan 

After receiving a "corrected" statement, Phillip Capital ended up not recognizing the gain ... and ... but Phillip Capital seemed to only recognize the losing trade.

Based upon the way you have explained everything there is no winning trade to recognize. The winning trade never happened. The position that showed up $9000 wasn't real. That's the root cause of the problem. When you closed it you actually created a new position that was real. If the winning trade was real there would be no losing trade because the trade that caused the losses would have been closing the winner and not opening a new trade.

SMCJB 

@jyonan sorry for your losses. Trading is tough enough without having to deal with issues like this. Not trying to single out you here, but trying to address what I consider to be a common misconception. With regards to this comment Based upon the way you have explained everything there is no winning trade to recognize. The winning trade never happened. The position that showed up $9000 wasn't real. That's the root cause of the problem. When you closed it you actually created a new position that was real. If the winning trade was real there would be no losing trade because the trade that caused the losses would have been closing the winner and not opening a new trade.

Yes...this is probably what actually happened.

jyonan 

Yes...this is probably what actually happened.

This is exactly what happened, I only know this because when this all occurred for me, it was in the small window before the final fixes occurred 2/7 between globex open and 8pm EST. I close the non-existent position right after open, then around 8 pm I saw the resulting position appear on my account, at the price I closed the non-existent position at (because I manually closed it).

I am fortunate to report that I have received updates from NT/PC and a resolution has been reached. I certainly appreciate NT for working overtime to try to make things right for, what really amounts to my own mistake. This definitely has confirmed to me that I made the right decision picking up the lifetime license (a week before all of this happened). For anybody else still awaiting how things will be resolved, I think they are starting to get caught up on getting these situations analyzed and resolved.