VirtualMark 

For example, defending Tradovate. It's been an absolute train wreck since Ninja Trader acquired them. Just look into it, or check the service status sometime, I've seen dozens of outages this year alone.

Tradovate had just as many outages before NinjaTrader acquired them. If anything, Tradovate made NinjaTrader worse because it led to Ninja removing offline mode in their 8.1 bright orange redesign.

planetkill 

Tradovate had just as many outages before NinjaTrader acquired them. If anything, Tradovate made NinjaTrader worse because it led to Ninja removing offline mode in their 8.1 bright orange redesign.

I stopped using tradeovate years before ninjatrader acquired them because of their outages. Then moved to Ninja and then they buy them. Lolol

Regarding apex, too many people use them who shouldn't be as they are not profitable.

VirtualMark 

It seems to be more of an issue with sim accounts on Tradovate rather than real live cash accounts, but I've noticed outages more months for the last year: https://www.reddit.com/r/FuturesTrading/comments/13bqmpm/tradovate_is_fritzing_out_again_stay_in_demo_if/ https://www.reddit.com/r/FuturesTrading/comments/11l2owm/tradovate_down_working_orders/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Tradovate/comments/11at9g5/anyone_elses_tradovate_down/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Tradovate/comments/11atv4m/ninjatrader_is_deliberately_tanking_tradovate/ It's been so bad that even Topstep are not allowing Tradovate for new accounts. And aside from the unreliability, they have also made some really bad changes, such as charging for orderflow+ which puts VWAP behind a paywall. Or allowing group trading but not allowing bracket orders on group trades. It's a shambles, but I won't go on as this is a thread about Apex. Yes Tradeday is more expensive, and you are only allowed one acccount. But the account max contracts scales up as your balance increases once funded so if you're good then you can have a much larger account. You can withdraw profits immediately, and there are no consistency rule. It's real money though not sim, which is why you have to pay the data fees as you're classed as a professional. Although again, I do wonder why they make us pay these fees if they're expecting to make a ton of money from us. If I found a goose that laid golden eggs I wouldn't charge it rent! Tradeday also only allow you one account, and have expensive reset fees. They seem to genuinely be looking for disciplined traders, and the idea is that there is a financial penalty for blowing your account. In comparison, Apex running 90% sales makes it easier to blow through several accounts and pass a few, then pay a more expensive fee to trade a "funded" account which in reality is the exact same sim that you paid $18 for, but now have added rules such as news trading, consistency, no flipping etc, which are all ok in the evaluation. Makes me think they want to attract the gamblers, but don't actually want them trading live. They just want to keep them buying evaluations and then blowing live accounts(as you said they won't get far). I'd imagine some people buy 10 accounts and only pass 1, which hardly sets them up for success in a live market. Yeah you're right it seems that Topstep put you on a sim first now. They used to be real money though, that's a shame.

Thanks for the links to the past issues, I hadnt thought to search reddit and didnt realize there was a whole subreddit on it - I only checked this website. Looks like I got lucky and missed some really bad days there with Tradovate issues. I hope that doesn't happen again, like I said I quite like trading on it compared to the others

Garris 

I stopped using tradeovate years before ninjatrader acquired them because of their outages. Then moved to Ninja and then they buy them. Lolol Regarding apex, too many people use them who shouldn't be as they are not profitable.

I guess I'd rather have people losing subscription fees to a demo account in a prop firm than losing real money in the market. The best option would of course be sim and training, but everyone wants to rush the process.

Or do you mean Apex is not profitable and will go under soon? I really see this as the only true cost risk of Apex, is if they run out of money and can't pay you out.

jlabtrades 

I guess I'd rather have people losing subscription fees to a demo account in a prop firm than losing real money in the market. The best option would of course be sim and training, but everyone wants to rush the process. Or do you mean Apex is not profitable and will go under soon? I really see this as the only true cost risk of Apex, is if they run out of money and can't pay you out.

You can always sign up for other prop firms and use a trade copier to get funded with multiple different companies at the same time, minimizes risk of a single prop firm not paying out. That's what I do

planetkill 

You can always sign up for other prop firms and use a trade copier to get funded with multiple different companies at the same time, minimizes risk of a single prop firm not paying out. That's what I do

What platform are you using multiple prop firms? Ninjatrader does not let me use multiple Rithmic connections. Is there a work around?


Sent using the NexusFi mobile app

jmutrades 

What platform are you using multiple prop firms? Ninjatrader does not let me use multiple Rithmic connections. Is there a work around? Sent using the NexusFi mobile app

I'm using NinjaTrader for multiple prop firms, I just followed this tutorial:

In case anyone is thinking of trying out APEX, make sure to use the coupon code they have active currently:

 

Code

SAVE80

src: https://apextraderfunding.com/coupon_code.html

I just finished a TopStep combine, and while I made money, I didn't make it in-line with their consistency rule. I also found that TopStep asks for 2x the profit target as Apex, and I found myself forcing myself to be way more aggressive in my trading than my strategy can handle, in order to hit the higher target during a slow month like August...

I feel much better about being able to hit the Apex target in the given time, without going outside my aggression comfort zone...

Profit-target/draw-down limit @ # of contracts (vendor)
$1,500/$1,500 @ 4 contracts (APEX) vs $3,000/$2,000 @ 5 contracts (TopStep)
$3,000/$2,500 @ 10 contracts (APEX) vs $6,000/$3,000 @ 10 contracts (TopStep)

Only thing to watch out for in APEX is the live draw-down limit (draw-down limit is based on your MFE on your best trade while its open), not based on what you actually pocketed (not based on FlatToFlat equity curve)... TopStep is based on FlatToFlat... which is a way nicer...however, as long as your not experiencing big equity swings in your trading, I feel Apex gives a bigger chance of passing the combine... Most importantly, there is no consistency rule for passing APEX...so if you trade crappy all month, but then finally snag a good runner and reach your profit target, you're ok... in TopStep you can't have one good day to pass--you have to have at least 2-3 good days in a month to pass...so with TopStep, you could have earned $6,000 for a required $3,000 target, and still not pass... I much prefer the Apex method of limiting your withdrawals until you get a few of those big days banked, rather than force you to keep trying out and paying their fees... I feel TopStep needs to lower their targets to closer to $1,500 for the 5 contracts, if they want to see good consistency...

From Apex FAQ:

Quoting 

See the following as an example: Your starting balance is $50,000. Your threshold will be $47,500 ($2,500 below $50,000). You make $500 and close the trade. Your balance will be $50,500 and your threshold will be $48,000 ($2,500 below $50,500). Next, you enter a trade and get up to $52,000, but don't close the trade until your balance is at $51,000. Then, your threshold will be $49,500 ($2,500 behind the highest live value of $52,000).

src: https://support.apextraderfunding.com/hc/en-us/articles/4408610260507-How-Does-The-Trailing-Threshold-Work-Master-Course

Also, TopStep 10 contract combine costs a lot more than APEX' equivalent--especially since apex seems to always have some kind of sale on...

tradingftw 

I just finished a TopStep combine, and while I made money, I didn't make it in-line with their consistency rule. I also found that TopStep asks for 2x the profit target as Apex, and I found myself forcing myself to be way more aggressive in my trading than my strategy can handle, in order to hit the higher target during a slow month like August... I feel much better about being able to hit the Apex target in the given time, without going outside my aggression comfort zone...

For some reason TopStep also doesn't work with Tradovate in NinjaTrader. When I tried them a month ago, they said they disabled Tradovate in NinjaTrader for some reason. Whereas Apex has never had a problem with Tradovate

planetkill 

For some reason TopStep also doesn't work with Tradovate in NinjaTrader. When I tried them a month ago, they said they disabled Tradovate in NinjaTrader for some reason. Whereas Apex has never had a problem with Tradovate

Not for some reason... there's a specific reason... they had a massive outage at the end of July, and had a TON of head-aches as a result... so they have disabled Tradovate for now.

There are also unsubstantiated rumors that Ninja was trying to take out Tradovate as a competitor (charting & broker combo dealer), and that there will continue to be issues between Tradovate & ninja because of this...