Kefkas Laugh 

i think the psychological issue is real...but only 33% of the equation (or 50% if you include execution into psychology which is probably correct)...but the other half is having a legit edge. at the end of the day if you don't have an edge you are going to lose. Finding and exploiting an edge is extremely difficult...end even then it is only so slight that you aren't even generating alpha. SP500 made roughly 25% last year lol...who ended 2023 having grown their trading account over 25%?

You are right to a degree. However, even with an edge, if the trader's psychology is off there will be problems in either making or keeping the alpha+ return on their investment. Psychological issues keep traders from following their trading plans, which in the end makes all the difference in the world.

Neologic 

You are right to a degree. However, even with an edge, if the trader's psychology is off there will be problems in either making or keeping the alpha+ return on their investment. Psychological issues keep traders from following their trading plans, which in the end makes all the difference in the world.

that's why i said psychology is 50% of the equation...im giving full credit to it's importance. Hell, i've read all of Douglas' books several times and watched his seminars several times...i believe that he 100% knew what he was talking about...it is important stuff.

back to OP...it sounds to me like he has more of an edge issue. loss after loss after loss with no significant winners. Every time i have thought I have developed an edge and made solid returns it just turned out to be luck mixed with extremely favorable conditions and eventually i give it all back slowly but surely.

A couple of thoughts:

I predict that Fade hasn't faded: "This isn't the Beginning of the End, but rather the End of the Beginning". I've blown-up several accounts ($10-20K range), but at least was disciplined about it; I took 'The Death of 100 Cuts' route to maximize my Return on Tuition. After 3-6 months of time-out, I always was haunted by the 'What if I had done X instead of Y' question, and was compelled to take another shot at trading. After several years, several gurus/methods/indicators, and several asset classes later, one thing was clear: I had been a naive idiot in years 1-4 ... had not understood what a tough business this was ... or the true nature of the market, disguised by precise-looking charts and indicators. These days, I use different entries, timeframes (bigger) and stop-loss techniques than I had used previously. So Fade, if you're still out there, take this as a sympathetic encouragement to 'get better, not bitter', once you're over the initial shock/grief/anger/shame/discouragement.

BTW, do you have a good grasp of what a 'stop-hunt' is, and what your role is in it (Hint: you're The Victim)? If this is news to you, you really should watch this video by Mark Chapman; his explanations were very helpful to me ... YMMV.

We as traders most likely had all blown an account or 2, Prop firms in general are all built to fleece you and scam you. Ap_x is place that encourage revenge trading, cheap resets and 1 day pass accounts for gambling addiction. Go for a real prop firm that has real brokerage accounts. The only one I'm aware of that will give you a broker account daily so you know you have a live brokerage account is Bl_sky and not only that they have a discord group that will "teach you" how to trade for success. Don't worry about blown account as many have had to go from full time trader back to a J.O.B to start over again.. Trading is a tough career. only 5% make it long term. Take heart we are all trying to be in that 5%

I also in my career brough my trade account from $15k down to 3k in 1 day believing it would retrace by end of day, which it didn't till 3 days later.. lessons learned about, dollar averaging, "hopium", revenge trading, and trade psychology in general. That was a decade ago and lessons are learned.. Try again, low contracts or Micro's. SIM if you need to. It's journey of self-discipline and trade rules.
"

HGTrader 

Try again, low contracts or Micro's. SIM if you need to. It's journey of self-discipline and trade rules. "

'Roger' re the Micro contracts, Fade. If you're blowing through $10K in 1 day, you're seriously over-sized on your trade. Micro-Euro is all I do, then I can always scale-up a bit if the trade is working well.

ZviTradingCoach 

@Fade Indeed, a painful story. Sadly, a more common one than you'd think - so thumbs up for the rare candor to actually share it. For your sake and others reading, it's important to understand the real reason for your blow-up. It is NOT "no edge+poor psychology." After working with many traders, I can safely say that not having an edge does result in losses, but it is NEVER the primary reason for blowing up. Blowing up is an overtrading issue, not a "statistical loss" issue. Blow up is - first and foremost - an issue of trading psychology. It is compounded by money management (which is also psychology-driven). Edge has nothing to do with it. If you have no edge, you'll obviously lose. But you'll have no problem stopping in time and figuring it out. If you stick to good money management you can trade for years without making any money, but without ever blowing up. Without it - you've set yourself up for a sure bolowout, and it's just a question of "when", not "if". Money management is a very psychologically driven issue. Both the specific rules you set (or worse, don't set) for yourself, and your ability to stick to them, are driven by various psychological considerations, in addition to the classical "math-based" rules you've probably learned. I wouldn't dare assume the specific reasons for in your case. It would take a little more that your email for that. But figuring them out is critical for you to get back on the right path - if and when you choose to do so. You've obviously risked more than your account can handle to begin with (ask yourself: why?). You've also obviously been unable to stop mid-day when the losses added up (again: why?). These are the real reasons you blew up. And these are the issues you need to tackle in order to move forward. It's a hard and deep look, but worth it. In my experience, the real causes often involve personal traits and automatic, subconscious thought patterns that show up not only a person's trading, but in other areas of life as well. Once honestly figured out, they can usually be overcome rather effectively. It is not easy, but it is very possible and rewarding. One last point: It's very natuaral to want to throw in the towel after such an experience. For some people, it's the right choice. For others, it's more of an emotional response to a traumatic event. I've seen over and over how people come back from situations like this - but they only move forward under the following conditions: - They've let go of the trauma/self-judgement/pain of the last event and are prepared to start fresh with an open view. - They identify the REAL reasons and work through them. Once you've done this, you are no longer the same trader that blew up his account. You're a different trader, starting from a higher point and a better approach. Either way, I wish you success.

I went through this experience as well, and it is nerve-racking. But one of the most important things I learned from the experience is that the issue is me. It’s not the market. There is no manipulation, not to the extent that it can do damage to the extent that it does damage to us. The thing is us; it’s always how we see things. For instance, the losses you suffered were a result of a tilt that happened. It is an instinctual aspect that we need to control, and that’s easier said than done. In the heat of the moment, that instinct becomes our driver, so evolving from that stage requires humbling yourself and accepting that that instinct is present, and it is there, and it is human.

So, how do you get over that? After an experience like you’ve had, take a break, think about yourself, think about those instincts that we still have and how they drive us in the world. Learn to take a step back and assess yourself, assess things that are part of you, assess those instincts. Going through that process, you’ll become introverted in a way, but you’ll be able to better acknowledge that instinct when it shows itself. You’ll realize that when that instinct is present, any further action in the trading space guarantees failure. That instinct is useful in the world out there, but it is not useful when you’re sitting behind a computer having to trade.

Kefkas Laugh 

that's why i said psychology is 50% of the equation...im giving full credit to it's importance. Hell, i've read all of Douglas' books several times and watched his seminars several times...i believe that he 100% knew what he was talking about...it is important stuff. back to OP...it sounds to me like he has more of an edge issue. loss after loss after loss with no significant winners. Every time i have thought I have developed an edge and made solid returns it just turned out to be luck mixed with extremely favorable conditions and eventually i give it all back slowly but surely.

As you say Psychology is definitely a core part of this activity. Absent of sound psychology, we are just a button, pressing stimulus machine. And a button pressing stimulus machine, enters the market based on random stimulus and loses money.

Psychology is that element that says I’m not going to enter here because I don’t know what will happen, I haven’t studied it, and I don’t have a feel or grasp of it.

Lots of good points in this thread.
My 2 Cents-

1. Rule one, don't loose your capital. The late Dr Van Tharp used pretty straight forward math to prove that with most systems (boy did he love computer simulations !) 1% was a solid number to use for R until you had at least 100 trades to evaluate. R is the amount at risk not the amount of the trade. So zero stop full amount , a 500 stock with a 5 dollar stop then R=$5, not 500. If you follow standard price action rules like I do it is not so easy. Ninja moves the stop to break even 1 tick beyond my first exit. The answer was buried deep in Van's ultimate guide to risk pamphlet. No choice but to use my average loss.

2. It is an auction so volume counts. Go watch the volume profile guys on you tube. Morad Askar did a morning show for 10 years (Futures Trader 71) as well as seminars here. Look at his stalk levels, or anyone else's nodes. This stuff is significant. Now think about where you are interacting with the market. Everybody and their cousin sees those levels. Don't go posting that the market makers targeted your 2 contract position when you put your stop exactly at a huge support level with overwhelming odds of a bounce.

3. Over the 5,000 or so years we have some sort of record on markets human nature has not changed. Understand how people interact with the markets, yourself and everyone else. If the computer could do it why have only a handful been successful with machines? Everybody talks about using AI in their trading. How come the hedge funds haven't taken the market by storm with so called AI trading? So, sorry it is all between your ears. And getting the little grey cells to read the market takes time, practice and some decent advice. Some stuff on the charts helps your head to see but the brain is a much better pattern recognition device (when trained) than silicon using Charles Boole's logic expressions. There must be a reason why we never see guys on social media standing in front of a one day rental Lambo with two bikini models saying "I make a reasonable living trading and you can too if you spend hours and hours for 3 months to two years training your brain, and some of you just don't have the ability.

4. Finally. as "Mac" at PriceActionTradingSystems (PATS) says over and over, if you are a newbie don't be a donator. As in why are you donating your money to the more experienced traders by taking the obvious (newbie) trades. So see rule one. Trade the micros and get eaten up by commissions until it is clear you are ready for the minis. That is to say play the penny slots until your brain see's the trades on charts that work for you.

It's interesting that this thread has seen a lot more action since Fade quit posting. It seems that no one is really interested in what you are doing but every one has a opinion about what you should be doing.