neil,
then please do enlighten us if its not something already covered in the d9 thread ... as i have yet to find that much difference between d9phaseshift oscillator and hilbert sine wave in practical use ...

... love these tongue in cheek about astro sitting up on their high horse looking down at the peasants lol ... just looking for something constructive in regards to TIME tools with ninja... if astronomical cycles are used great ... if good ole fashion gregorian cycles are used great ... but what tools are out there or use of cycles with ninja that one has found useful. i have searched the net pretty good for cycle tools on ninja and havent found much out there ... and from the way this is going this probably not going to be very fruitful as well.

My horse just told me that he doesnt know much about time based cycles with Ninja. He did say that a guy named suri duddela at surinotes.com that leases indicators based on ABC that are TIME extrapolated based on Fibonacci....caveat is its EL based!
I am doing some studies to find out time based cycles on CL with the d9,still working on it. Happy Easter to all.

ValLiant 

this is not really the path i was intending the thread to go down ... was just looking for some good time cycle tools for ninja ... didn't want it to turn into a debate about astronomy... ..

ValLiant 

.. ... love these tongue in cheek about astro sitting up on their high horse looking down at the peasants lol ... just looking for something constructive in regards to TIME tools with ninja. ... and from the way this is going this probably not going to be very fruitful as well.

Welcome to the land of the peanut gallery! (though I think its the plebeian peasants doing the looking down.
(From another board the poster wrote ..."when the A--- subject is opened the vitriol that spews forth is amazing. "and true here as well at futures.io (formerly BMT) - see astrology thread). I'll send the balance via PM - I don't want to get hit a the peanut barrage!!

In any case, you don't want the thread to go in that direction and are trying to find an Ninja based indicator.

I have been thinking of your question over the weekend and hoped to sketch out some thoughts on it, however it was a busy weekend. I think that one fruitful avenue might be to look at time as one does price. With price you often have a 50% retracement. So price might go from 1310 to 1320 retrace to 1315 and then advance to 1325, so a +10, -5, +10 sequence. (Elliot wave is a little like this wave up, retrace, wave up, retrace, wave up. )

Now if the rate of ascent is steeper than the retracement may be more shallow. So it you ascend +10pts in one time unit instead of two time units, the retracement may be only 37.5% percent. giving a +10, -3.75, +10 sequence. So in this case you have mixed in time. If eg#1 is a 1 x 1 line for the first +10 then eg#2 is a 2 x 1 line for the first +10.

Is the time of the retracement leg reduced from 50% of the ascent leg to 37.5%? I don't think it necessarily is but you would have to try some examples.

What I am trying to suggest is to translate price thought in time thought work out a theory and let the coding wizards here at futures.io (formerly BMT) go for it.

So here is a simple example. Think of a moving average (MA). You sample price every so often e.g. the close of each day, and then you compute a rolling average. And you may do two MAs a 10day and a 40day and look at the cross-over of the two MAs.

Translation:
You sample time every so often e.g. the time a 5pt range bar and time do your MA calcs. MA 5pts and MA 20pts and look at the cross-over.


-------------
Time as both plus and minus

My intuitive feel is that you would like to get the wizards to code you time as both plus and minus.

So here is an indicator that I would like to see:
If the price advances count it as plus time. If the price declines count it as minus time. (Have a variable the user can set for the price "box" e.g. 3 pts. The algorithm would be like using the price zig-zag indicator and measuring time at the turns.) The second variable the user can set is the start time so e.g. 12:53pmCT April 4, 2011 can be set to 1324.25). The third variable is a cumulative counter like on the vol count on the volume based charts. The fourth variable is the time unit e.g 15 minutes=1.unit -- with the option to round down.
The 5th variable is time slot blanking. e.g. ES trades 8:30-15:15 then 15:30-8:30 in the Globex session. In the time blanking I might set 15:16 to 8:30am as blanked out, or 15:16 to 7:30am as blanked out.
(15:15 = minute 915)

So if price advances from
1324.25 @ 12:53 (minute 773) to
1330.25 @ 15:10 (minute 910)
=6 pts in 137 minutes
and my point box size is 3 then 6>3 we count the time +9.133 units (if no round down and+9 if rounddown to zero decimal places).

If no time slot blanking,
the price declines to 1323 at 3:18am that night. (minute 1440+198=1638)
= -7.25 in 728 minutes or -48.53 time units
the cumulative sum is 9.133-48.53 = -39.397

If time blanking set at 15:30-7:30
the price declines to 1325.25 at 8:43am (minute 915+73=988)
= - 5pts in 78 minutes or -5.2 time units.
the cumulative sum is 9.133-5.2 = +3.933.

Using the time blanking, you might want to see when the cumulative total gets to 15 units, for example. And that could be marked on the graph 10,080 linear time minutes (7days) and 1324.25+15=1339.25 time units. It starts the cumulative counter again and when the cumulative total gets to 15 units it marks on the graph 5,760 and 1354.25 time units, etc.

I hope it helps!

very interesting use of time ... i have not thought of using time that way ... gives you quite a bit of vairables to work with so potential turn times could be quite extensive so coding it would seem the best approach as doing that trial and error by hand finding the right mix ayyaahh ... but great thought....ill have to chew on that a bit more.

Yes. I'm not sure how much coding work it is, not being a coder. I thought it best to show an example with several input variables in case a keen coder comes across the thread and realizes that coding leaving input variables selectable by the user (versus hard coded) makes the final indicator more flexible and therefore more useful for a wider range of people.

I see the second example as a research tool to save a lot of the grunt work and allow you to try many options of looking for cycles before having to go to pencil and paper.

You could look at questions such as
"what the cumulative time in an uptrend is required to complete a cycle before the downtrend starts?"

Generally I am trying to suggest that you will probably have to think of what you want coded, describe it and put it out there. Hoping to find a useful off-the-shelf ninja indicator for time determination of price change could be quite difficult. Most people look at price movement to determine price movement.

i wanted to add to this post to see if there had been any new development for ninja in the form of time tools....

here is an example called PVAC 4 day rotation PVAC Basics

would anyone happen to have code that could mimic what was done in ensign for the PVAC rotation? that would be great... it can be found here PVAC Templates looks a bit like this:



[IMG]http://screencast.com/t/thfPLCRS3K[/IMG]