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What is a great way to learn trading?


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What is a great way to learn trading?

  #1 (permalink)
gnoppa
Sarnen Obwalden
 
Posts: 11 since Apr 2020
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Hi all,

I was wondering what approach you took how to be a consistently profitable trader?
I've decided for pure price action. Went through Al Brooks course and tried to apply that to a small FX account where I trade the "I don't care size". Likewise, I go through old ES charts on tradingview bar by bar and try to do reasonable swing trades on paper. Once I am through with the session, I compare my entries and exists with what Al Brooks presented in his daily setup.

I feel this is quite an effective approach but I was wondering how you became sufficiently good at trading?

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  #2 (permalink)
 
Sandpaddict's Avatar
 Sandpaddict 
Vancouver, Canada
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gnoppa View Post
Hi all,

I was wondering what approach you took how to be a consistently profitable trader?
I've decided for pure price action. Went through Al Brooks course and tried to apply that to a small FX account where I trade the "I don't care size". Likewise, I go through old ES charts on tradingview bar by bar and try to do reasonable swing trades on paper. Once I am through with the session, I compare my entries and exists with what Al Brooks presented in his daily setup.

I feel this is quite an effective approach but I was wondering how you became sufficiently good at trading?

Well gnoppa I believe your already on the right track. As far as Im concerned Al's course is all you need to get all the foundation you need. After that study all and every one and always keep practicing as you are.

I would also suggest dont try to copy Al just emulate what hes showing you and make it yours. Build up a datbase of your own trades. You have to be comfortable with how you trade and know why your taking trades and how to manage them.

I love tradingview and still have and use to this day but nothing beats live trading. Even live sim trading beats simulator anyday because you cant fool yourself.

Good luck my friend. As always Im no expert but here to help.


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  #3 (permalink)
gnoppa
Sarnen Obwalden
 
Posts: 11 since Apr 2020
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Sandpaddict View Post
Well gnoppa I believe your already on the right track. As far as Im concerned Al's course is all you need to get all the foundation you need. After that study all and every one and always keep practicing as you are.

I would also suggest dont try to copy Al just emulate what hes showing you and make it yours. Build up a datbase of your own trades. You have to be comfortable with how you trade and know why your taking trades and how to manage them.

I love tradingview and still have and use to this day but nothing beats live trading. Even live sim trading beats simulator anyday because you cant fool yourself.

Good luck my friend. As always Im no expert but here to help.


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Yes I think over the long run I have to find my own setups. But for now, I feel internalizing Al's teaching is a great way to speed up the process. I see it a bit like an apprenticeship.

If you think about it in Japanese martial art learning stages:
  • shu (守) "protect", "obey"—traditional wisdom—learning fundamentals, techniques, heuristics, proverbs
  • ha (破) "detach", "digress"—breaking with tradition—detachment from the illusions of self
  • ri (離) "leave", "separate"—transcendence—there are no techniques or proverbs, all moves are natural, becoming one with spirit alone without clinging to forms; transcending the physical

Brooks is clearly on the ri stage. He sees ~ 40 reasonable trades within 81 bars. That is probably why it is so difficult to learn his trading style. So in fact when you try to emulate him you are already looking at the ri stage.

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  #4 (permalink)
 
AllSeeker's Avatar
 AllSeeker 
Mumbai, India
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Trading on paper I have found more useful when refining strategy, but if you really want to learn trading you need to start trading

Have you played one of those flight simulation games? I've, I still don't know how to fly a real plane.

Just my newbie 2c.

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  #5 (permalink)
 
Blash's Avatar
 Blash 
Chicago, IL
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Risk.

I haven't seen any talk about risk.

Focus on risk. Not entry.

Of course you need an edge.

But, by way of comparison, the entry is far less important than the exit and managing your risk is the pinical of great trading.

Trading size so small you don't care won't help you all that much in the big picture unless you just use it to get familiar with your platform/software, save for the beginning stages of understanding your market.

The mind games/psychology trade aspect is intricately interwoven to trades with risk that is real and means something to you.

Things to think about:

Risk per trade. This must be decided BEFORE entry. Stops. Location/placement. Movement.

Tolerance for risk. How do you measure it? Minutes? Can you walk away? Can you wait two hours for a trade to start working?

Position sizing. How do trade opportunities rank? Do some merit more risk?

Ron




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...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
Buy Low And Sell High (read left to right or right to left....lol)
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  #6 (permalink)
 
Sandpaddict's Avatar
 Sandpaddict 
Vancouver, Canada
Market Wizard
 
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gnoppa View Post
Yes I think over the long run I have to find my own setups. But for now, I feel internalizing Al's teaching is a great way to speed up the process. I see it a bit like an apprenticeship.

If you think about it in Japanese martial art learning stages:
  • shu (守) "protect", "obey"—traditional wisdom—learning fundamentals, techniques, heuristics, proverbs
  • ha (破) "detach", "digress"—breaking with tradition—detachment from the illusions of self
  • ri (離) "leave", "separate"—transcendence—there are no techniques or proverbs, all moves are natural, becoming one with spirit alone without clinging to forms; transcending the physical

Brooks is clearly on the ri stage. He sees ~ 40 reasonable trades within 81 bars. That is probably why it is so difficult to learn his trading style. So in fact when you try to emulate him you are already looking at the ri stage.

Actually I agree. You have to be fully absorbed into any craft and know the fundamentals inside out before stepping out on your own and becoming part of it. And then becoming better at whatever suits you.

And only then having your orders flow in and out of the market and just being part of it while you just sit there and trade comfortably and confidently.

Like Al has always said. You will never be profitable using a strategy you don't feel comfortable with. You need something thats both profitable and comfortable for you to trade thats all.

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  #7 (permalink)
gnoppa
Sarnen Obwalden
 
Posts: 11 since Apr 2020
Thanks Given: 10
Thanks Received: 15


LastDino View Post
Trading on paper I have found more useful when refining strategy, but if you really want to learn trading you need to start trading

Have you played one of those flight simulation games? I've, I still don't know how to fly a real plane.

Just my newbie 2c.

Oh I am also trading live. But interestingly, I feel the simulator makes me progress faster as I can compare myself to a fantastic baseline.

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  #8 (permalink)
gnoppa
Sarnen Obwalden
 
Posts: 11 since Apr 2020
Thanks Given: 10
Thanks Received: 15


Blash View Post
Risk.

I haven't seen any talk about risk.

Focus on risk. Not entry.

Of course you need an edge.

But, by way of comparison, the entry is far less important than the exit and managing your risk is the pinical of great trading.

Trading size so small you don't care won't help you all that much in the big picture unless you just use it to get familiar with your platform/software, save for the beginning stages of understanding your market.

The mind games/psychology trade aspect is intricately interwoven to trades with risk that is real and means something to you.

Things to think about:

Risk per trade. This must be decided BEFORE entry. Stops. Location/placement. Movement.

Tolerance for risk. How do you measure it? Minutes? Can you walk away? Can you wait two hours for a trade to start working?

Position sizing. How do trade opportunities rank? Do some merit more risk?

Ron




Sent from my iPhone using futures.io

I find it interesting that most people talk about risk and psychology. I agree that if you screw one of these up it is fatal. And in many ways, risk and psychology are interwoven. However, I don't think they are as challenging as people make it sound. I go with the simple 1% SL risk heuristic (later on I will use the Kelly criterion) and put my stops at prices that would invalidate my hypothesis. As I trade the "I don't care size" live I have a lot of equanimity. I am sure that if I was trading larger amounts I wouldn't be as calm. But that is why I try to slowly condition myself. I noticed that at the very beginning where I was trading too big. I would generally cut my winners way too quickly as I was afraid to lose what I had gained so far. So I agree with you, exiting a trade when real money is on the line might be the most challenging thing.

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  #9 (permalink)
 
deaddog's Avatar
 deaddog 
Prince George BC Canada
Legendary Market Wizard
 
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Trade Demo until you are profitable.

Trade demo with the same size of account you will use in real time.

Develop a trading plan and write it down.

Score yourself on whether you follow your plan or not to determine if the plan is viable and if you have the discipline to follow your own plan.

"The days when I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, I have really good days" RW Hubbard
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  #10 (permalink)
 
Blash's Avatar
 Blash 
Chicago, IL
Legendary Market Chamois
 
Experience: None
Platform: NT8,NT7,TWS
Broker: InteractiveBrokers, S5T, IQFeed
Trading: The one I'm creating in the present....Index Futures mini/micro, ZF
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Thanks Received: 4,518



gnoppa View Post
I find it interesting that most people talk about risk and psychology. I agree that if you screw one of these up it is fatal. And in many ways, risk and psychology are interwoven. However, I don't think they are as challenging as people make it sound. I go with the simple 1% SL risk heuristic (later on I will use the Kelly criterion) and put my stops at prices that would invalidate my hypothesis. As I trade the "I don't care size" live I have a lot of equanimity. I am sure that if I was trading larger amounts I wouldn't be as calm. But that is why I try to slowly condition myself. I noticed that at the very beginning where I was trading too big. I would generally cut my winners way too quickly as I was afraid to lose what I had gained so far. So I agree with you, exiting a trade when real money is on the line might be the most challenging thing.



I wish you all the best on your trading Journey.

Ron


Sent from my iPhone using futures.io

...My calamity is My providence, outwardly it is fire and vengeance, but inwardly it is light and mercy...
The steed of this Valley is pain; and if there be no pain this journey will never end.
Buy Low And Sell High (read left to right or right to left....lol)
Follow me on Twitter Visit my NexusFi Trade Journal Reply With Quote
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Last Updated on June 5, 2020


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