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Long postion here and short postion there?


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Long postion here and short postion there?

  #11 (permalink)
 
bobwest's Avatar
 bobwest 
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andwhysee View Post
Using two different PROP firms, I am thinking of 5 long positions(NQ, ES etc.) in Prop firm A, then 5 short positions on prop firm B. what do you think? I will blow one of the two accounts but potential profit is incredible. anyone tried this?

Well,

1. If it matters to you, technically (and actually) this would be a violation of the CME Wash Trade Rule. If you used completely different funding firms, it might not be detected, but if you profit from the winning side of this tactic, someone else in this arrangement (the firm with the losing trade) is going to lose (assuming you are trading a funded account where they have advanced you trading funds, which they will lose). If either finds out, you can expect to lose your account with them.

Which brings me to point 2:

2. People are not really all that stupid. Assuming that you can consistently fool them out of money is not a wise assumption. They definitely would object if they knew. Would you get caught, or would you get away with it? What if, for example, the two firms both use the same broker? Brokers monitor for wash trades. What if the brokers are different but both use the same "clearing" broker (FCM)? What if they use the same trade routing firm, such as Rithmic (which is very likely, actually.) Yes, you could get away with it, but you could be found out too. Especially if you make a practice of it.

3. You have to be trading in accounts that actually pay out, not sim accounts. To be able to trade a truly funded live account, you will have to have built up some profits in an evaluation account over a period of time. That's going to be hard or impossible using this hit-or-miss strategy, where you don't even know which of the two accounts will get the profit and which will get the loss. This would also be a reason to not expect to have any consistent results if you are in real paying accounts either: the profit and loss will just go to whatever accounts they go to, which you would have no say in. So you could expect to be randomly up and randomly down in any one account and see a lot of trades just being offset within the same account, probably on the same day.

This is not a great long-term plan.

You somewhat touched on this point here:

andwhysee View Post
There seems to be a way to go back and forth, say once I hit $1500 profit, I will close positions on acct A and B. I am now down $1500 on B so I will try to recover some loss, once I recover loss on account, B, I will repeat. lol oh well. it's hard to beat the market.

How you are going to "recover" that loss with this random method is a good question. You would have to know how to actually trade, consistently and over a period of time, which pretty much eliminates the need for this whole sly hustle.

-----------------------

From a moderator perspective, my first thought when I read your post was simply to delete it as advocating fraud on the funding companies, which it somewhat does. It's a way to use their agreement with you to give them a risk they have not agreed to, and which will cost them if you are successful.

I decided to wait for a while and see what comes out of any further discussion.

I think that enough has come out, from different comments, to show other traders who might be tempted to try this that it is not a good idea.

It is also a weird way to think of trading. Trading should be about you making trades in the market and being successful, not depending on finding clever ways to game the system by outsmarting the funding companies that you supposedly are using to learn about trading and to fund your own real-world trading. People sometimes seem to get the strange idea that trading is about doing well in the funding company world, not the real world.

I think this has gotten enough comment, and it is time to close this thread. If anyone is tempted to try this dodge, my advice is to just forget it and try to improve your trading.

Bob.

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote

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