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Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Broker: Collect them all
Trading: Equities, Futures & Crypto
Posts: 49,965 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 32,943
Thanks Received: 100,920
Of course sim is different. There is no doubt or debate about this. Sim trading is great for testing a new method, testing an ATM strategy, or learning how stops and targets work. Sim is useful for other things too, but for the most part only cash trading experience will build the necessary skills to be a profitable trader. You can be profitable all day long on sim, for weeks or months on end, and it really mean just about zero in a cash market. The psychology of trading, and everything it encompasses, is what separates the winners from the losers. Not methods, not indicators, but the execution of it -- how you do things, how you perceive them, how you act/react differently in cash vs sim, how you handle fear and greed, etc. Sim does zero to build these things.
The circus marksman bragged to the duelist that he could snap the stem of a wine glass at 100 paces. "Remarkable," replied the duelist, "but can you do it when the wine glass is holding a loaded pistol aimed at your heart?"
The following 7 users say Thank You to fiki for this post:
Do you have criteria for when it's better to pass from sim to real money trading?
In the beginning I did very little sim and mostly real money trading and lost a lot. Now that I'm wiser I do a lot of sim and a little real money trading when the setup looks really good.
For the poll, only 5 people replied and one was me so video wins.
I have another one though. I'm considering making a trading room. To keep focused it'd have to be based on the way I trade, which includes:
- cycles
- identifying pro activity
- order flow
- volume ladder
- market profile
I think that's a wide range of topics. Any other methods would be distracting so discussion would really have to be limited to the topics above. It has to be focused or it will interfere with my trading.
I'm thinking of FESX from 9-11:30 am European time and ES from 9-11:30 am NY time. I could keep the room open longer but I wouldn't be present outside of those times, except from maybe 2:30 - 3:30 pm NY Time for ES.
I can do something for free without audio or screen sharing. To have those there would be a small cost to cover the fees.
The room would be educational and not to call trades. I can tell when I'm going to take a trade and when I'm in and out but that wouldn't be the point of the room. If I do one with me sharing my desktop I'd share my DOM.
Site Administrator Swing Trader Data Scientist & DevOps
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Custom solution
Broker: Collect them all
Trading: Equities, Futures & Crypto
Posts: 49,965 since Jun 2009
Thanks Given: 32,943
Thanks Received: 100,920
It will be different for everyone. These are only the roughest of rough of concepts of when to move from sim to cash:
a) You understand how orders work.
b) You understand how your ATM works (NT).
c) You have devised a method/edge you believe in.
d) You have exercised discipline and patience in the execution of the method.
e) You are properly capitalized.
I believe if these are true, then you should start trading cash. Continuing to trade sim isn't going to help you much. It would be at a snails pace. Of course, part of what makes trading difficult is going to cash and then having the fortitude, and capital, to stay alive while continuing your education, and then eventually graduating and not being broke by the time you get there.
I believe we have different approaches. I believe one should not trade real money until one is consistently profitable on simulator. I don't see a reason to lose money during the learning process.
Once one is consistently profitable on sim that doesn't mean they'll be consistently profitable with real money. With real money come all the psychological problems previously mentioned and sometimes fills & slippage. But if a trader isn't profitable on sim he's not going to be profitable with real money either.
The following user says Thank You to cunparis for this post:
