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I think it's the best compared to EVERY other one, primarily because it's the largest so they can afford to payout. I've never been denied with Apex and they allow automated trading, unlike new companies like MFF where they will deny you if your entries are similar to anyone elses.
How would you define this trade......its Friday your trading NQ mini not micro, you immediately don't like the trade and you exit close to BE? To me its being a smart trader. When i sent my funding request in they denied because they said the trade took a couple seconds with a mini and told me i flipped lol, One of my strategies is 20 ticks on NQ, I sent them my Rtrader report showing how long i am in these 20 tick trades.....most a second or 2...... you already know if your trading NQ this is very average for 20 ticks as i proved to them with my Rtrader reports. I've had numerous payouts without a problem, then they start this.....I trade these type of prop firm accounts from time to time for fun as i also trade other accounts. I messaged Daryl Martin on Messenger and he replies "it was a few seconds it was a flip" I tried reasoning with him and proving that most of my trades, even the ones i was paid on only last that long, I was blocked lol. So i started a new 10 days with these passed accounts already and i emailed support and told them i would now for 10 days be trading 1 micro with a 5 tick profit, traded for 12 days, now 22 total, denied again for flipping even though i stayed consistent throughout and knowing that i should have been paid 12 days ago rather than denied.
I emailed support the following, they never replied.
"I diligently traded for 12 consecutive days without engaging in flipping activities. As noted in the attached email, my consistency spanned over 10 days, with a defined profit target of five ticks per trade. Throughout this period, I maintained steadfast adherence to my trading strategy without any deviation. If there are concerns about the method of trading micros over a 10-day period and its compliance with account grouping policies, I kindly request clarification supported by explicit documentation of such regulations.
The provision of up to 20 accounts is intended to accommodate diverse trading strategies, which I have diligently utilized to secure profits consistently through micro trading. The specific profit amount attained is immaterial, as I consistently adhered to predetermined profit targets and stop-loss parameters. Regrettably, the current circumstances have left me deeply unsettled, prompting consideration of public disclosure to seek external perspectives due to the lack of clarity provided.
I have remitted $170 from my account for the second month subscription for these two accounts. However, the conduct exhibited in our interactions falls short of professional standards. As a conscientious trader, I feel compelled to shed light on my experience with your services, ensuring transparency for potential stakeholders"
Maybe i missed something in the fine print? But let me reiterate I have been paid numerous times trading like this already into my bank account, maybe they just don't wanna pay me anymore? I don't know.
As a 15 year member here i wanted to share my most recent experience that it might help others make better informed decisions when looking at these type of companies.
$170 for one month subscription?! Data feed from ninja trader is $12 a month, micro contracts are one dollar, get out of that playpen and just engage in the real market.
I wouldn't have remained engaged with this group for so long if I hadn't found success in trading diverse markets with personal accounts :-) However, I understand the seriousness this holds for many individuals. With the right company and approach, success is attainable. It's crucial for individuals to conduct thorough due diligence and carefully assess reviews, both positive and negative, to make well-informed decisions when selecting a firm. This ensures they're equipped with the necessary knowledge to navigate the complexities of not only the market but all these different "funding firms" also.
I understand your point, but I am of the mind that the controlled environment and security of a funded trader program defeats the purpose of being in the market.
One has to think for themselves and develop their own structures and perspectives of seeing the market, and the, superficial urgency that is inherent with these funded trader programs, and the inevitable and inexorable blowouts that occur, I think it would be better to have those experiences in the real market.
The reason why I think it would be best for people to directly engage the market, is so that one understands the market, once feels the visceral reality. (It’s better to swim with that sharks than in the perpetual fish tank. (You’re obviously one of the big fishes in this fish tank)
But for others who are entering these funded programs, with hopes and strange dreams, better to get out there in the ocean and trade one micro contract, you can use that to develop a process, and feel the joy and pain of execution without hopes of a new subscription account next month. it’s important to feel the real pain, to feel that emotion, and to understand that there is no security, there is no lifeline, there is no next month, when you blow out your account you’re done, until you put in more money. The market today is cheap, and I’m still trying to understand what is the benefit of funded trader program, when there are micro contracts, which are actually cheaper than these funded trader programs.
I just feel like new traders need to engage the market directly and immediately, and feel it, and it’s going to hurt, but from those hurts and pain, rules are developed,
wisdom divined.
Where does Apex actually publish its financial figures? Then we can see whether the statements about the payments made are valid and how you should classify them if you also see the income side. Is there no publication requirement for companies of this size in the USA? Does anyone know anything? Thanks.
How would you determine whether I took the trade based on standard entry rules or not?
What is "riding the initial news burst"? How long is a "burst"?
Is it considered "news trading" when the news is not scheduled? Let's say geopol news is announced, and the market sells off quickly. If I buy this, am I in violation? What if I don't know the source of the selloff, or if my news service does not announce it?
20% Rule
Imagine I see a trade set up, and plan to scale in long with 5 MES contracts. I get long 1 contract, and see something which spooks me a bit and causes me to exit the trade near breakeven, only trading the 1 contract. I see no other trade setups for the day.
Since you know nothing about my intent here, how would you determine whether I was flipping or not?
How do you determine someone who is adding to a loser, versus someone who has predefined points to scale into a trade?
Trading Plan
So, you can ask me about my trading edge, and I must comply by explaining it to you, or what? You will close my PA?
My Concerns
My concern is that your rules here are not rules at all, but vague guidelines. Some would say (and I am not) that these vague guidelines give you a loophole to deny payout requests. While you expect traders to have set rules, you don't actually state any specifics for your rules above. In my view, the purpose of an evaluation is to evaluate; passing an evaluation, one would think, should lead to more freedom. However, the above are rules imposed after one has already passed an evaluation. I believe the biggest risk to the funded trader model (as opposed to trading the live market) is the counterparty risk, namely, that the trader depends on ATF (in this case) to provide payouts (instead of the usual counterparty, who would be CME). When the rules are vague as above, it gives me serious doubt as to whether I might build an account which is then invalidated because an error in judgement. Can you discuss the penalty for breaking these rules? Imagine I have a PA account, and have a sufficient balance to initiate a payout request. What would happen if I were accused of doing something like "trading the news"?
Please understand that I am a fan of your company and your model, and have supported you when others have expressed concerns. So, I am only attempting to have my questions answered from an authoritative source.
Can you provide more details? After all, they shouldn't deny you a payout for 1 day of flipping. They say "no more than 20%", so that's 2 days you can flip out of 10 days for a payout.
What did your profits for your 10 days look like?
I have to admit, their rules seem intentionally ambiguous, and after emailing their support to clarify their rules I didn't get any further information. Something like being flat 2 minutes before and after a major news release would make sense, but they don't have this rule, so it's hard to tell what you're allowed to do.
And it does feel like you're at their whim, and that they can use their cloudy rules to enforce a denial of a payout at any time.
Did you trade a breakout when you usually trade ranges? Denied, you changed strategies.
Did you trade 5 minutes after CPI because you saw a good setup? Denied, news trading.
Did you only take 3 trades today, when you usually take 30? Denied, flipping.
Did you have a good day and make a lot of money? Denied, 30% rule.
Did you average into a position because it made sense to? Denied, no averaging allowed.
Etc etc.
I do feel that if we make money then that should be that. If you consistently build up an account enough to take a payout, they should pay out no matter what. Why shouldn't we be allowed lucky trades? I certainly get unlucky ones.
Trading is hard enough without these artificial rules.
I think your post answers itself. They have no interest in funding profitable traders, they are only interested in making as much money as possible. On there site it literally says "no refunds for any reason whatsoever". Here in the UK that is literally against consumer law, but as they aren't based here I doubt there's much that can be done.
The averaging into trades one annoys me. It absolutely makes sense to get a better position if you're in a trading range. Why not buy again at the bottom if your first entry wasn't the best?
Waiting, Discipline and Patience Pays!
