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Trading the new CME E-Micro's (E micro) MES, MNQ, MYM, M2K and other micros


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Trading the new CME E-Micro's (E micro) MES, MNQ, MYM, M2K and other micros

  #251 (permalink)
weathers343
los angeles ca
 
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hurleydood View Post
Here is the latest commission rates.
They will be charging all in rate of 41 cents for the micro eminis. They have also raised the cost of all other products.

The commission efficiency going to happen because 10 micros would cost you $4.10 vs 1 emini would cost you $1.89.
I like the idea of scaling in and out with these. CME presentation said that you can buy 1 emini and scale out with 10 micros to go flat.


Is the 41 cents per side or round trip?

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  #252 (permalink)
weathers343
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hurleydood View Post
According to the Commission Templates on NT8 on the lifetime license the all in rate is 85 cents per contact for all Micros E-Mini. The standard 53 cent commission will still apply.

AMP charges 37 cents on the flat rate account.
Tradovate charges 56 cents on the free membership.
NinjaTrader charges 85 cents on the lifetime license.

All above is all in with the routing fee.

Per side or round trip?

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  #253 (permalink)
 Craco 
Belgium
 
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The price of the micro MES juni is 2917,5, the ES price closed is 2949,25.. Hmm, nice start looks bad....

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  #254 (permalink)
 hurleydood 
San Diego, California/USA
 
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weathers343 View Post
Per side or round trip?

Per side https://ninjatrader.com/PDF/ninjatrader_futures_commissions.pdf

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  #255 (permalink)
 hurleydood 
San Diego, California/USA
 
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apac View Post
If fungible, I wondered how they would deal with partial offset. There is no such thing as being long 0.6 ESU9 after selling 4 micros against a 1 lot long ES. And to convert a 1 lot ES position into 6 Micro's would be surely complicated at the clearing house? So the all-or-nothing approach you describe makes more sense. I wonder how the many retail trading platforms are going to deal with this? The two symbols net to zero, but only if in a 10:1 ratio.

And Order Flow analysis implications...

- if many intraday traders get long ES over a 10 minute period, the eventual opposing ES sell order flow may only be evident in the micro order flow? Gorge in the ES, puke in the micro???

Software side will be an issue. You would probably be hedged and after the close the position could close out internally. We will just have to wait and see.

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  #256 (permalink)
 Zanu 
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  #257 (permalink)
apac
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1 ES <> 10 MES.

Transaction costs are not the same. So to a degree, price should not be the same either. One could calculate the expected difference with some assumptions.

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  #258 (permalink)
 
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 bob7123 
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
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apac View Post
It is true that the micro offers a virtually zero basis-risk hedge for the mini.

It is also perhaps true that the above quoted text from NT is classic broker-speak, bless them

"The benefit if this product is that it will generate more commissions for us if we 'educate' customers to be 'sophisticated' and use the micro as a position scaling-out or temporary partial risk-off hedge tool v.s. an open mini position"

For goodness sake, if the micro is that liquid and has equivalent commission-efficiency for the trader, then people will just trade the micro and scale in and out with greater granularity thanks to the smaller size. The mini will get crowded-out - to a degree - as a result.

ps, today, CME's reported earnings fell 17% Q1. They need this ES micro product to fly where their other micro-contract hopes have flunked. They are competing for retail revenue with the ETF universe and nano-CFD's of myriad specifications, and the tyranny of time-zone (they provide exchange services in products that are most liquid for only a fraction of the day when most retail accounts want to trade, and in products that are mostly of US-domestic interest).

Micros will still cost you an extra tick per round turn. If you've got so much expectancy that this doesn't matter to you then please post your trading system!

Separately, if you read the first part of the thread, you'll see micros are hardly an idea of the week; they've been in the pipeline a long time. And FWIW, even if they prove to be very popular, revenue wise they will be a flea on the butt of an elephant. So I can't agree the notion that this is a scam by a desperate company.

Frankly, I think you are a bit cynical. That's fine, but again FWIW, I haven't seen many cynical traders out there banking solid profits.

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  #259 (permalink)
 hurleydood 
San Diego, California/USA
 
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apac View Post
1 ES <> 10 MES.

Transaction costs are not the same. So to a degree, price should not be the same either. One could calculate the expected difference with some assumptions.

Price may not match but they should move together close to point for point.

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  #260 (permalink)
 
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 sptrader 
Colorado
 
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I think it will take at least a few weeks for the MES to build enough volume to narrow the point spread to something very close to the ES, but I expect that it will happen soon.
The MES should be great for testing trading systems & trading ideas, without ever needing to use a sim acct.

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