NexusFi: Find Your Edge


Home Menu

 





ES vs NQ/YM


Discussion in Emini and Emicro Index

Updated
      Top Posters
    1. looks_one Howard Roark with 10 posts (12 thanks)
    2. looks_two bobwest with 6 posts (23 thanks)
    3. looks_3 chartmojo2 with 6 posts (17 thanks)
    4. looks_4 dloomis514 with 2 posts (0 thanks)
      Best Posters
    1. looks_one Botts with 7.5 thanks per post
    2. looks_two bobwest with 3.8 thanks per post
    3. looks_3 chartmojo2 with 2.8 thanks per post
    4. looks_4 Howard Roark with 1.2 thanks per post
    1. trending_up 29,510 views
    2. thumb_up 95 thanks given
    3. group 32 followers
    1. forum 41 posts
    2. attach_file 4 attachments




 
Search this Thread

ES vs NQ/YM

  #31 (permalink)
Howard Roark
Oslo Norway
 
Posts: 439 since Aug 2018
Thanks Given: 393
Thanks Received: 532


chartmojo2 View Post
Helps to also have some mental "templates" to "view" through especially with nq. Something like.."price tends to move from confluence to confluence in waves and patterns in certain time zones thru the day. What confluences?..well vwap, and 50% or ranges, both the days and the big leg or wave you are in at any moment. Point of control being another and often moves to the other two. Also the opening 1 min range etc. Why does price move to those because traders are there, thus orders. They trade away from them, to them and around them..in front of them..more traders = more orders means more "gravity" or "pull". This means more targets, entries, exits, buys, sells etc at and around the confluences. Those rule over ma's. If you think about there is always an ma in some time frame on some price, but they are "incidental" oompared to those mentioned above. If a "popular" ma is alligned or confluencing it will have more "gravity" ..because more traders are there. NQ is fast and initially looks random and wlld but really its not. Its the best mover with more opportunity but can be very volatile off a catalyst. Once again, takes al lot of observation and it really has to fit with your personality/abiltiy/inclinations/platform. Some traders will watch say Nq, ES, YM and maybe a few others and they will take the one that is behaving best..steepest trend, whatever. I prefer to just focus on nq and maybe es. Whatever it is. first one has to see it, something...then be able to trade it. Two distinct skill sets. Once again some things work some of the time and you can have an edge but there still will be a randomness to the distribution of the winners within your edge. One can know everything there is to know about say nq and still not be able to trade it. Which one's best? NQ, ES etc....the one you are able to see and trade best.

You're making some informed comments here. Thank you!

I do not use MAs, but I recently gained access to the VWAP.

Would you say the VWAP is of any significance on index futures?

I'm ready to give it some study...

Thanks.

Reply With Quote

Can you help answer these questions
from other members on NexusFi?
MC Advanced Simulated Trading.
MultiCharts
Pivot Indicator like the old SwingTemp by Big Mike
NinjaTrader
Zombie Indicator Help
NinjaTrader
Better Renko Gaps
The Elite Circle
What You Know vs How much you know about it
Traders Hideout
 
Best Threads (Most Thanked)
in the last 7 days on NexusFi
ApexTraderFunding.com experience and review
28 thanks
System Performance Stats Comparison
13 thanks
GFIs1 1 DAX trade per day journal
10 thanks
Spoo-nalysis ES e-mini futures S&P 500
8 thanks
Trading with Intuition
6 thanks
  #32 (permalink)
 chartmojo2 
Missioul Montana usa
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninjatrader and others
Trading: nq, es, Hype cool runner Ipo's months out short into lockup expirations. UVXY, TSLA options
Posts: 24 since Feb 2016
Thanks Given: 3
Thanks Received: 60

Yes I would have vwap on a chart, also developing point of control from volume profile and mid point or mid range line. What you'll find is that when price unwinds it tends to regress to the space between vwap and 50% of days range and often then pulls point of contol poc there as well...that is a confluence that has gravity. The day has these which I always run. but also each run, leg or wave has its own .You can use somethng called an anchored vwap and start it from the last hgh or low,, that coupled with the vol profile/and poc will often give you a likely retrace zone..thats the tendency if it goes shy of that or further that will reveal bias.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #33 (permalink)
Howard Roark
Oslo Norway
 
Posts: 439 since Aug 2018
Thanks Given: 393
Thanks Received: 532



chartmojo2 View Post
Yes I would have vwap on a chart, also developing point of control from volume profile and mid point or mid range line. What you'll find is that when price unwinds it tends to regress to the space between vwap and 50% of days range and often then pulls point of contol poc there as well...that is a confluence that has gravity. The day has these which I always run. but also each run, leg or wave has its own .You can use somethng called an anchored vwap and start it from the last hgh or low,, that coupled with the vol profile/and poc will often give you a likely retrace zone..thats the tendency if it goes shy of that or further that will reveal bias.

Thank you.

I will keep this in mind in my studies.

Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)
 
bobwest's Avatar
 bobwest 
Western Florida
Site Moderator
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Sierra Chart
Trading: ES, YM
Frequency: Several times daily
Duration: Minutes
Posts: 8,174 since Jan 2013
Thanks Given: 57,578
Thanks Received: 26,303


Howard Roark View Post
You're making some informed comments here. Thank you!

I do not use MAs, but I recently gained access to the VWAP.

Would you say the VWAP is of any significance on index futures?

I'm ready to give it some study...

Thanks.

There's a long thread that goes into this question in some depth, here:



It does wander around into side issues sometimes and got partially derailed a few times, but it is worth your while if you stay with it. Some of the applications of VWAP in the thread are perhaps over-complicated, but there's a good discussion nonetheless.

Bob,

When one door closes, another opens.
-- Cervantes, Don Quixote
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)
 chartmojo2 
Missioul Montana usa
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninjatrader and others
Trading: nq, es, Hype cool runner Ipo's months out short into lockup expirations. UVXY, TSLA options
Posts: 24 since Feb 2016
Thanks Given: 3
Thanks Received: 60

Yes indeed it wanders as do most things and looks random initially but over time one can or may get used to its action. It does have gravity by its nature and definition as do other things that are pulling like poc and 50% range etc. Look for the confluences and the space between vwap and 50% of ranges. Price will often regress to that. Helps to know if you are in range 70-80% of the time vs trend, big order flow agenda 20-30% of the time.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #36 (permalink)
 chartmojo2 
Missioul Montana usa
 
Experience: Advanced
Platform: Ninjatrader and others
Trading: nq, es, Hype cool runner Ipo's months out short into lockup expirations. UVXY, TSLA options
Posts: 24 since Feb 2016
Thanks Given: 3
Thanks Received: 60

Chart Mojo Neutral Unwound Cloud
If you can open that you can see the indicator I created the Chart Mojo Neutral Unwound Cloud..see how many times price unwinds to it there is a whole art to how traders trade to, away from , in and around it. Its the ornage cloud the yellow horiz cloud is the opening 1 min range. The other big gravity. Cheers Trading view chart. It is the space between the vwap and 50% of days range. Every big move or wave has it as well..this is intraday example and updates in real time thru the day.

Follow me on Twitter Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #37 (permalink)
Howard Roark
Oslo Norway
 
Posts: 439 since Aug 2018
Thanks Given: 393
Thanks Received: 532

Hello all,

I'm resurfacing this thread instead of starting a new one. Any new views since last time?

I'm a specialist in ES and with the volatility over the last few years it's been a great instrument with none of the issues you may associate with ES during periods of lower volatility.

However, after a few slower days over the last few weeks where ES have been very choppy after the VIX dropped I've been looking more at NQ and practicing a bit.

I've pretty much decided that I will start trading NQ in addition to ES, but I do of course need a good deal of practice and testing before I start trading it with live money.

I've watched it in a supplementary role for years, but never looked into detail on the micro-structure of it, but my impression so far is that it's much easier to get quick B/E entries or just take quick scalps on a fast chart while ES simulatenously may just barely move.

Since you can take these quick trades and use fairly small stops, you're not broke when NQ finally makes a significant move. In contrast, with ES, you can more easily get chopped up and when it finally moves it may not be enough to cover the cost of those small stops using a similar style.

So, I'll probably going to aim for trading both of them, either correlated positions or for example targeting larger swings on ES while scalping NQ.

I imagine that when volatility really spikes again NQ could become too volatile and I'll be happy to stay with ES only during those periods.

Thanks in advance.

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #38 (permalink)
eddie9988
Edinburgh United Kingdom
 
Posts: 7 since Jun 2023
Thanks Given: 1
Thanks Received: 2

Hi all newbie here, still trying to figure out how to post an intro, so complicated. Anyway, just trying to respond to the thread with my 2 cents. The whole US market is essentially on the few stocks Apple, MS, Amazon, Alphabet, Meta and now nVidia. When these are up, there won't be a down day for NQ, ES and most times YM. Before I do anything now, even when my indicator says buy, I would always take a look at these 6 stocks. If they are up more than 1% I won't be shorting so happily. US markets are essentially a bull market, cannot remember any meaningful down months for a long time now. ES is just 10% off its ATH and that tells you something.

Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)
 Keab 
London UK
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: SierraChart/Prorealtime
Broker: Sierra Chart/prorealtime
Trading: SandP futures
Posts: 511 since Jul 2013
Thanks Given: 123
Thanks Received: 316


Howard Roark View Post
Hello all,

I'm resurfacing this thread instead of starting a new one. Any new views since last time?

I'm a specialist in ES and with the volatility over the last few years it's been a great instrument with none of the issues you may associate with ES during periods of lower volatility.

However, after a few slower days over the last few weeks where ES have been very choppy after the VIX dropped I've been looking more at NQ and practicing a bit.

I've pretty much decided that I will start trading NQ in addition to ES, but I do of course need a good deal of practice and testing before I start trading it with live money.

I've watched it in a supplementary role for years, but never looked into detail on the micro-structure of it, but my impression so far is that it's much easier to get quick B/E entries or just take quick scalps on a fast chart while ES simulatenously may just barely move.

Since you can take these quick trades and use fairly small stops, you're not broke when NQ finally makes a significant move. In contrast, with ES, you can more easily get chopped up and when it finally moves it may not be enough to cover the cost of those small stops using a similar style.

So, I'll probably going to aim for trading both of them, either correlated positions or for example targeting larger swings on ES while scalping NQ.

I imagine that when volatility really spikes again NQ could become too volatile and I'll be happy to stay with ES only during those periods.

Thanks in advance.

I completely agree! I have them both up but trade more on the NQ than ES. Getting a fill can sometimes be frustrating as the NQ can go like a bullet but that's also the appeal-quick scalping profits that really add up (10 points =200 bucks while the ES sits there and grinds and chops.
If you open a 5 sec chart for both markets then the difference is astounding. NQ has plenty of tradeable (and very fast) action with recognisable patterns while the ES just sits there with no granularity whatsoever. It's almost like the ZB some days when you need to be looking at marketdelta style lol order flow charts and totalling trades over a longer term. Not what I signed up for!

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:
  #40 (permalink)
lightsun47
Toronto, Canada
 
Posts: 359 since May 2018
Thanks Given: 493
Thanks Received: 296


Completely agree with you as well.

Stopped looking at ES for this same reason and started to dive deeper into NQ because of better volatility and more readable patterns than the ES.

Reply With Quote
Thanked by:




Last Updated on January 9, 2024


© 2024 NexusFi™, s.a., All Rights Reserved.
Av Ricardo J. Alfaro, Century Tower, Panama City, Panama, Ph: +507 833-9432 (Panama and Intl), +1 888-312-3001 (USA and Canada)
All information is for educational use only and is not investment advice. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading commodity futures, stocks, options and foreign exchange products. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
About Us - Contact Us - Site Rules, Acceptable Use, and Terms and Conditions - Privacy Policy - Downloads - Top
no new posts