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Why dont people trade 150 ES contracts?


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Why dont people trade 150 ES contracts?

  #41 (permalink)
 
xplorer's Avatar
 xplorer 
London UK
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bobbolton View Post
It's a true market.Liquidity in DOM is not clear.

What do you mean by that?

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  #42 (permalink)
Howard Roark
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josh View Post
This has nothing to do with your 5 contracts. They're running after liquidity, period, and they know where it's likely to be found. Yours (your stops) is lumped in with everyone else's. CL is $70K notional per contract. $350K notional for your 5. That's literally next to nothing in the world of oil, even in illiquid hours.

What do you mean by they're running after liquidity?

Stop orders which usually are market orders (unless it's a stop-limit) take liquidity - they do not offer it (limit orders do).

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  #43 (permalink)
 
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 josh 
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Howard Roark View Post
What do you mean by they're running after liquidity?

Stop orders which usually are market orders (unless it's a stop-limit) take liquidity - they do not offer it (limit orders do).

It's all liquidity. Liquidity can be categorized into: (1) displayed liquidity, what you see on the book (2) hidden liquidity that is ready to trigger, like system-created refresh bids/offers, true iceberg orders, and stop orders (3) "sideline" money that will enter the market, such as buyers waiting for favorable prices, and the like... it's more like "potential liquidity" as there's no flow yet.

If you want to buy a level lower than the current market and have a large order to fill, you need liquidity on the other side of your order. Whether you're bidding and preventing the market from falling from a wave of sell stops, or whether you are taking offers that have presented themselves at that lower level after some initial selling, you need liquidity. You may be providing it, if you're bid, but you still need orders on the other side, and a lot of them.

Think of it like this -- very often market makers are the counterparty to your trade. But sometimes they're not. When you get a wave of selling, and big buyers (pension funds) want to buy at a level, they can certainly bid and be on the other side of other institutional selling or retail selling. A MM does not have to be the counterparty. If that were true, MMs would be the only liquidity providers, and everyone else would be liquidity takers, and that just isn't the case.

Just the other day I heard someone talk about this. Here you go:
 
Code
https://youtu.be/KGXTzoDNL4E?t=1162
(embedded video does not honor the timestamp, so just copy/paste)

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  #44 (permalink)
Flash Gordon
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sloth View Post
We all trade 500-1000 lots in here. I'm not sure that I understand your question.

(Quote from your Post) (Basically,why arent people making millions by trading a large amount of contracts?)

Answer: You can also lose millions.
Taking into consideration commissions, and having to [pay the spread] if the market moves against you,
you can easily lose millions, and many, many more millions in a fast market.

Pro traders usually build a position, with their average price moving up/down based on their thesis.

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  #45 (permalink)
 
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 josh 
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Flash Gordon View Post
Pro traders usually build a position, with their average price moving up/down based on their thesis.

Whether they scale into a position is mostly a function of the time frame of the trade. If the trade is to be longer term, then it's no big deal to add lower or higher. If the trade is to be short term, there's not a lot of opportunity to add higher, so they put the full size on at the outset, or at least most of it. Now, as you say, if it moves in their direction, a short term trader may certainly add, but they're not building a position so much as pressing an advantage which is working.

I'm not talking about fund managers who are managing billions for investors, whether that be governments, pension funds, or just long term investors. These traders, who would be deemed "institutional," certainly do have to build a position. However, pro traders do not move enough money, generally, to worry about adverse price impact. They trade liquid products and are able to get near full size in a few clips. For example, if I'm moving 500 ES, I may have to get it in 3 orders, but I certainly don't need to "scale in" as someone would who is worried about moving the market too much.

In fact, the good pro traders I've traded next to in the past tended to go pretty bit at the outset. Why? Because they see the trade and the opportunity, and need to put on the risk. They don't hesitate really, because their entire purpose is to put on risk when they have an advantage.

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  #46 (permalink)
SunTrader
Boca Raton, FL
 
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Didn't read thru all the posts so forgive me if it was already mentioned, but 150 eMini's * $12.50/tick = $1875.00 p/l fluctuation.

Have a defibrillator near your trade desk at all times.

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