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Trade long & short simultaneously in NT8


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Trade long & short simultaneously in NT8

 
 
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 AnvilRob 
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johnnymustard View Post
How do I go about trading long and short at the same time, in the same security.
I might be long in ES but want to scalp it short without closing my long.
What are my options for enabling this capability.

On a side note, can anybody explain to me why I can't use the question mark while writing this without the cursor teleporting to the search bar and not even printing the question mark. Thank you, JM

You can make a calendar spread. For example go long the front month and then short the following months open contracts. It’s called a futures spread.

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 johnnymustard 
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AnvilRob View Post
You can make a calendar spread. For example go long the front month and then short the following months open contracts. It’s called a futures spread.

I certainly didn't think of that. I'll look into it.
Thank you, JM

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AnvilRob View Post
You can make a calendar spread. For example go long the front month and then short the following months open contracts. It’s called a futures spread.

Problem is back months in ES are very thin. You might incur additional slippage. Plus, depending on the market, having a calendar spread has its own risks (as opposed to zero directional risk if you are long and short in same contract, which is a fancy way of saying you are flat).


@johnnymustard

Depending on the broker, the 2nd position may require margin too. So you are long in one, short in the other actually, but you need margin for each! Even though you are net flat overall, your broker might say you need margin for both - if margins are calculated only on subaccount level. VERY inefficient use of capital. You'd have to check with your broker on this. I know at least 2 brokers who do NOT co-margin sub accounts.

Also, if you do this a lot with multiple accounts, expect a call from Compliance, as they will claim you are trading against yourself (that happened to me, with Tradestation. Had to convince Tradestation CFO that what I was doing was perfectly legal. Eventually I was proven right.).

Realize though that depending on your setup, you could combine positions in the account, and bookkeep positions outside of account.

Being long and short is same as being flat.

I do this all the time with one account, with multiple strategies. I'm long one strategy, then if second strategy goes short, then I am flat in actual account. The strategies don't know about each other, they think they are long/short, and do all the proper bookkeeping math and sending signals for their respective positions. The account reflects the actual net position at all times. This works really well.

Edit: forgot to mention, due to FIFO accounting rules, if you combine into one account, prices and buy/sell matches will seem wrong/off at times. Trades you thought were winners will be on your statement as losers, and vice versa. But when you do the overall math, everything adds up correctly in the end. It just might get a little confusing...

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The feature you're looking for is called "Display Selected ATM Strategy Only" mode, read the details here: https://ninjatrader.com/support/helpGuides/nt8/NT%20HelpGuide%20English.html?atm_strategy_selection_mode.htm

Display Selected ATM Strategy Only
This mode is an advanced mode and should only be used once you have become very familiar with the NinjaTrader application.

Who is this mode designed for?
This mode is designed for traders who want to run concurrent ATM Strategies (trades) in the same market. This mode will visually separate all concurrent running ATM Strategies thereby allowing you to have multiple SuperDOMs open, tracking the same market but displaying different trade strategies. A practical example might be that you have taken a day long intra day swing trade against a fifteen minute chart for five contracts. Throughout the day, you scalp the same market on a one minute time frame. This mode allows you to have two SuperDOMs open, one allocated to manage and only display your day long intra day swing trade, the other used to manage and only display your scalp trades.

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 johnnymustard 
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Miesto View Post
It is possible to create a subaccount.

I would think you can use your regular NT with your regular data feed but with the possibility to switch between the main account (where you can go long) and subaccount (where you can go short).

You should verify that with NT to be sure (also about any additional costs). At the bottom of the web page linked above is an e-mail address you can contact for further information.

Please let me know when it is resolved. Thanks, M.

This sounds like just what I'm looking for, thank you.

Started this thread
 
 johnnymustard 
Las Vegas, NV
 
Experience: Intermediate
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Trading: ES, 6E & CL
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Conceptzx View Post
Isn't hedging against CFTC rules?

I'd be trading different time frames or different strategies or something else.
I wouldn't be going simultaneously long & short based on 50 period SMA for example.
I'm certainly not interested in breaking rules or laws.
Trying very hard to avoid exactly that.

Started this thread
 
 johnnymustard 
Las Vegas, NV
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT 8
Broker: NT Brokerage, IQFeed
Trading: ES, 6E & CL
Posts: 87 since Aug 2013
Thanks Given: 9
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kevinkdog View Post
Problem is back months in ES are very thin. You might incur additional slippage. Plus, depending on the market, having a calendar spread has its own risks (as opposed to zero directional risk if you are long and short in same contract, which is a fancy way of saying you are flat).


@johnnymustard

Depending on the broker, the 2nd position may require margin too. So you are long in one, short in the other actually, but you need margin for each! Even though you are net flat overall, your broker might say you need margin for both - if margins are calculated only on subaccount level. VERY inefficient use of capital. You'd have to check with your broker on this. I know at least 2 brokers who do NOT co-margin sub accounts.

Also, if you do this a lot with multiple accounts, expect a call from Compliance, as they will claim you are trading against yourself (that happened to me, with Tradestation. Had to convince Tradestation CFO that what I was doing was perfectly legal. Eventually I was proven right.).

Realize though that depending on your setup, you could combine positions in the account, and bookkeep positions outside of account.

Being long and short is same as being flat.

I do this all the time with one account, with multiple strategies. I'm long one strategy, then if second strategy goes short, then I am flat in actual account. The strategies don't know about each other, they think they are long/short, and do all the proper bookkeeping math and sending signals for their respective positions. The account reflects the actual net position at all times. This works really well.

Edit: forgot to mention, due to FIFO accounting rules, if you combine into one account, prices and buy/sell matches will seem wrong/off at times. Trades you thought were winners will be on your statement as losers, and vice versa. But when you do the overall math, everything adds up correctly in the end. It just might get a little confusing...

I had always planned to have to put up margin for both trades. It never occurred to me I might not have to. That's good to know.

I'm very much interested in doing this in a way that Compliance won't get their shorts bunched up.

I might be back to ask you how to set things up to combine the positions in the account and bookkeep them outside the account.

I appreciate the heads up about the accounting quirks. I would've panicked if I had seen winning trades register as losers.

Started this thread
 
 johnnymustard 
Las Vegas, NV
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: NT 8
Broker: NT Brokerage, IQFeed
Trading: ES, 6E & CL
Posts: 87 since Aug 2013
Thanks Given: 9
Thanks Received: 43


NinjaMobileTrader View Post
The feature you're looking for is called "Display Selected ATM Strategy Only" mode, read the details here: https://ninjatrader.com/support/helpGuides/nt8/NT%20HelpGuide%20English.html?atm_strategy_selection_mode.htm

Display Selected ATM Strategy Only
This mode is an advanced mode and should only be used once you have become very familiar with the NinjaTrader application.

Who is this mode designed for?
This mode is designed for traders who want to run concurrent ATM Strategies (trades) in the same market. This mode will visually separate all concurrent running ATM Strategies thereby allowing you to have multiple SuperDOMs open, tracking the same market but displaying different trade strategies. A practical example might be that you have taken a day long intra day swing trade against a fifteen minute chart for five contracts. Throughout the day, you scalp the same market on a one minute time frame. This mode allows you to have two SuperDOMs open, one allocated to manage and only display your day long intra day swing trade, the other used to manage and only display your scalp trades.

Thank you for bringing "Display Selected ATM Strategy Only" to my attention. I had no idea it existed and will look into it.

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Last Updated on April 1, 2024


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