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Gambling (with life)


Discussion in Psychology and Money Management

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Gambling (with life)

  #91 (permalink)
 
rezak's Avatar
 rezak 
Genova.Italy
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradingView
Broker: retail prop firms
Trading: setups
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SBtrader82 View Post
I think that trading is an intellectual activity and since only 1-5% or traders make money, it is fair to assume that those who make money are somewhat smarter than the average, or at least have more formal education in math or finance related material.

How honest can we be about our mental abilities? can we admit to ourselves that we are not smart enough?
What if we were like the guy with a mental deficit, nobody will ever tell us and we could jeopardize ourself and our family.

I suggest a couple of "proxies" to gauge our intellectual abilities:
1) IQ test
2) univeristy/school grades
If you were among the worst students in your class you were probably not smart enough or disciplined enough. What makes you believe that with trading you will be different?

I know this is not politically correct. But we cannot be all in the top 1% of the IQ bell shape.

It doesn't mean anything. Trading is not an intellectual job, it's a psychological war between you vs you and everybody else. I would never bet on the person just because he/she is smart, will become a successful trader. But I would bet on the person that comes from military, sport, "by the book" jobs backgrounds. Or for example, persons that are non-conformist.
Iq tests, grades, and shit like that is the last thing to watch. In the end...if you are so smart, why you are so poor?

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  #92 (permalink)
 
Anagami's Avatar
 Anagami 
Bangkok, Thailand
Legendary Hedge Fund Trader
 
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bobwest View Post
How about managing the impact of losses so it doesn't seriously affect the rest of your life? Or what problems you have had that were brought on by trading losses and how you got out of them, if you have? Or anything else that would be closer to the topic and would be of some actual value? Just suggesting....

You asked a personal question, and here is a personal answer.

I remember years ago, standing in my kitchen, crying, after I blew up 60% of my account revenge trading CL. It's funny to me today, but back then, I felt like a truck ran over me. Brutal.

I did make a turnaround, both in my trading and in my life. I credit my spiritual practice for all that - meditation and also, letting go of my own greed, of letting go of being attached to 'success' (now I consider the ONLY measure of success the amount of joy that I experience in my life on daily basis).

These days I trade not out of inner feelings of lack or greed, but because I enjoy it, because I was born to do this. I don't worry or put pressure on myself to 'make money'. Money simply comes when my energy is aligned with my Deepest Self. Success is an automatic consequence not of trying hard or fighting with the market, but listening to my own Inner Guidance, letting go, and being my best and wisest Self. That's all. It has never been easier for me to make money.

You are never in the wrong place... but sometimes you are in the right place looking at things in the wrong way.
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  #93 (permalink)
Kgard252
Idaho, USA
 
Posts: 14 since Sep 2021
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Excellent post on something that needs to be talked about. Thank you!

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  #94 (permalink)
MattATM
Paducah KY United States
 
Posts: 7 since Sep 2021
Thanks Given: 2
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I have to wonder if it should make a difference in how we feel taking a loss when we overlook something that we should have seen vrs losing to an institution trading with special privileges like lvl4 data that allows them to fill in a particular order.

If you lose to your peers because you were careless should that be different than losing to something way beyond your capabilities

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  #95 (permalink)
SunTrader
Boca Raton, FL
 
Posts: 262 since Nov 2018
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A loss is a loss.

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  #96 (permalink)
richardrgayton
Fullerton California
 
Posts: 20 since Jan 2023
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Futures trading attracted me 15 years ago as a get rich quick opportunity because I was stuck emotionally about what to do with my other career. I found after two years of trading ES using Stochastics I ended dead even, maybe a tad ahead because I left on a long ES position by mistake overnight when Saddam Hussein was captured that weekend. My mistaken long soared and I sold out promptly Monday morning. I just started building MP charts by hand when my life took new direction and I let trading go for over a decade.

I returned to it a year ago because I needed a new challenge, but I no longer see it as a get rich quick endeavor. I know now that I am unlikely to be successful quickly so I trade small or I am on sim when testing out new approaches. I really enjoy studying it and the thrill of the market, but I treat it like any other stimulant. Its great in small quantities EVERYTHING ELSE IN MY LIFE IS MORE IMPORTANT: my peace of mind, my husband, my children, my dogs. In that order. Trading is after the dogs, yet I value ES, NQ futures highly as something to learn and try. Like a advanced hobby that might someday be a profession.

I have appreciated the sim opportunity I found on Ninjatrader. I could get a feel for how to use the platform and then I could use it to test setups in market conditions without losing money in making errors entering orders. Believe it or not on sim in the first few months I found myself entering the wrong (unintended) direction at least once a day. Finally I found I could be profitable on sim then I graduated to the micros. I agree the micro commission structure is a total rip comparing MNQ to NQ for example, but micros let me feel what it was like to trade real money by risking very little real money---but something anyway. Then I gave NQ a try with a very specific setup with a high success rate but low R. Keeps me profitable.

Would like to study MP. May try a trading room.

The trick is to enjoy the journey and trading has been very enjoyable the way I have approached it the second time.

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  #97 (permalink)
 max13 
New York
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: Ninja Trader
Trading: 6e TF CL
Posts: 7 since Dec 2010
Thanks Given: 4
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If your considering joining a chat room try this room out, I have been a member from 2009 and you can check it out just take a free trial. Learn the trading platform and you could find yourself becoming very profitable. Just to be clear I am a paying member from the first year they went into business. vipertradingsystems.com (Good luck)

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  #98 (permalink)
richardrgayton
Fullerton California
 
Posts: 20 since Jan 2023
Thanks Given: 13
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Checked out Viper. Has beautiful, complicated colorful charts and $400 per month price tag? Smells fishy. I wasnt very clear about what I want in my previous post. I am really looking for a chat room with other traders who are serious and we support each other using price action theory and practice. Where no one is setting up a business to profit off other traders. Everyone in the room profits by learning from each other. Since I am an intermediate trader, hopefully a room with traders at the same level as me or higher.

A chat room might have a mentor if he is not exploitative. A mentor deserves some pay, but he or she must be an honest mentor who does not exploit the relationship. Trader Tom is an honest mentor for instance. He takes no pay as he supports himself from trading but his room is only him talking. He is spiritually oriented in a generic way and that is really helpful to me. So he is helpful but trading can be a lonely business and he cannot help individuals. I also seek comraderie in a room. So maybe that is a clearer statement. If anyone knows of such a room or would like to start one let me know.

Trading is so much like meditation and martial arts and military combat or tennis, its about learning skills, practicing them over and over, engaging in self correction, not taking stupid risks. Mentors are helpful along the way, but only honest ones and no mentor can make you profitable. That is not their job. But I have certainly learned from paid ones and have luckily never had an exploitative one. I learned the most from other traders giving freely to me. Hopefully I am also giving back.

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  #99 (permalink)
SunTrader
Boca Raton, FL
 
Posts: 262 since Nov 2018
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Trading is risk taking.

So is gambling.

But then again so is starting a small business or simple everyday things like crossing a street or flying in an airliner.

Each has its own unique probability properties.

What is "risky" gambling for one is not for another. For instance someone on public assistance buying $50 of Lotto tickets is risky compared to Elon Musk putting $50,000 on red in Vegas.

Apples to apples. Apples to oranges not.

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  #100 (permalink)
 
Small Dog's Avatar
 Small Dog 
Sydney NSW Australia
 
Experience: Intermediate
Platform: TradeStation, Oanda
Trading: Forex, index futures
Frequency: Daily
Duration: Days
Posts: 162 since Jun 2020
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The meaning of gamble: 1. play games of chance for money; bet. 2. take risky action in the hope of a desired result.

Trading fits these definitions. There is an emotional and social context that goes with the word gambling. But, like with anything else, it can be calculated and managed or stupid and reckless.

In regards to the mental abilities required for trading, it is definitely not the IQ, education or a background in something. In essence, trading is managing varying degrees of discomfort. I think this is a unique quality that cannot be predicted by other traits.

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