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See my previous post. Also, know also that 15 days is the MINIMUM for MES. And on the OneUp website, I routinely tell evaluees to take their time and don't rush - to "take 30, 60, or even 90 days to complete the trial. "
Completing any one of the OneUp/MES evaluations in 15 days requires a daily return on available capital that is BETTER THAN THE BEST TRADER IN THE WORLD. (Just an educated guess here based on the numbers in the next paragraph.)
For example, the $150k evaluation is $9k profit in 15 trading days and the max draw down is $5k. Do the math! To do $9k in 15 days is $600 per day. $600 per day/$5,000 is 12% PER DAY day consistently for 15 days. What is the annual return? 3,000%.
Even if you make the evaluation in 30 days, you are doing 6% per day (1,500% annual) and 60 days = 3% per day (750% annual).
So no, its not realistic at all!!! But however unrealistic and unsustainable the returns are, the evaluations are short term. And I think they give TST, OneUp/MES, LeeLoo, Earn2Trade, and many others something to judge potential traders buy. It could just be a combine money maker, but as I posted before, I do think MES and OneUp are separate, and I have talked with two traders who have been LIVE with MES for almost 2 years now.
Again, 15 days is just the minimum.
Can you help answer these questions from other members on NexusFi?
Congrats on trying out the micro contracts! The ES is one option, but the micro NQ is also a good mover.
I am currently trading MNQ and MYM. Unfortunately, I have just learned a hard lesson. The small size allowed me to increase my stops, but I made them too big. While I have been trading my Live MES account and my new trial account on LeeLoo (I like the rules better), I have also been taking small trades with MNQ and MYM. And with the market moving up so fast the last 5 days, I let some trades get away.
So keep it tight, and trade them just like you would the ES, NQ, or YM. But be aware of the slightly larger spreads and almost double the RT costs as a % of the potential profit compared to the Emini's. ($.78 RT all in at AMP for MESM9 vs $4.00 RT all in for ESM9).
what do you like more about LeeLoo's rules? also is the free 10-day option available to even people like me who have signed Rithmic data agreements due to attempting combines with other companies like TST/OUT/E2T?
The last I heard, the 10 day free option (12 contract account) ends on June 10 (this Monday). If you don't finish in 10 days, THAT IS OKAY, you just need to pay the $195 to continue for another 30 days.
I don't know anything about the Rithmic rules on account combining.
LeeLoo things I like better than MES (But still not up to speed on all of them!):
1) You do not have to be flat through any specific news events. If you wanted to have an open trade walking into the NFP yesterday, you could have done it with no penalty. (But you should have your head examined!) On MES, being forced to stay flat 1 min before through 1 minute after specific news releases can be really hard, especially when there is is a HUGE spike or dip that you might want to fade. And you have to be flat during FOMC press conferences. But when is the press conference officially over??? This one is tough. I know a trader who lost his funded MES account because of this very thing.
2) You can hold through the close. (But again, a wise day trader should be flat and have a restful sleep, letting the Trump Tweets and Asian and European markets do their nightly dance with no help from you.)
3) You do not have to scale your contracts. On the 12 contract account, I could trade all 12 out the gate on the live account and not scale like MES requires. (On MES, you have to build up the account to trade all the contracts).
4) The system will not allow you to trade with more contracts than allowed. It will simply reject the order. On MES, you will get kicked out for this, even though it would be really easy for MES to implement this.
I think the first three rules in the MES world are actually not too bad, and a trader would probably be better off following them. But the last rule on MES seems punitive, and Leeloo got this one right for sure.
Do you know if Leeloo has a withdrawal threshold like OUT? For example, with the 150k account with OUT, you can only withdraw once you've achieved $5000 in profits.
Still trying to figure out the details on Leeloo. They are a new company, which has its own risks. The rules are a bit confusing to me still, having done both TST and OneUp.
On a positive note, they just decided to eliminate the $100/mo live account data/wire fee. So on an ongoing basis a trader has no charges except any wire fees.
I was reminded today that by discussing any of these companies I am putting myself in legal harm's way. However, I will continue to take the risk. I think it is important. I am not discussing proprietary information, and I am sharing MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with them, and I am being as factual and fair as I can be. I have even had several compliments to this end.
If you decide to do business with One/UP or LeeLoo or even trade the CME micro contracts because of anything I have written, you do so at your own risk and must hold me harmless.
I think you have done a stellar job of parsing out information and then publishing it to FIO pertaining to intricacies of how these prop trading firms operate. In reading through their public information it is sometimes difficult to find the answers to seemingly simple questions that anyone investigating their opportunity would ask.
Thank you for your due diligence; for all the time you have donated in the effort to help others. Your postings have changed my attitude towards these firms somewhat and have certainly cleared up many questions that could only be answered by someone already within the belly of the beast so to speak.
Thank you again for your constant flow of information. Your latest info on leeloo not requiring the $100/month data fee is HUGE.
Best regards Always
“The major work of the world is not done by geniuses. It is done by ordinary people, with balance in their lives, who have learned to work in an extraordinary manner.”
― Gordon B. Hinckley
Good to know they dropped the exchange fee, just like OneUp.
As far as i know and by what i got from communicating with them it seems that currently their trailing draw down (calculated on open equity) keeps trailing forever.
They have told me they are working on a different solution just like the one that OneUp has, a trailing draw down until you reached a certain profit level. Hopefully they go for a non trailing draw down or a draw down calculated by end of day balance.
Right now i would still pick OneUp over LeeLoo since the rules are exactly the same (if LeeLoo changes to trailing draw down until you reach a certain profit level), but OneUp has been out there for much longer with traders who got paid, as proven in this thread.
LeeLoo is a new company and so far there is nothing that differentiates them from the established companies out there.
Just as sstheo mentioned, this is just my opinion. Not an advice of any kind. Every trader should do his/her own research in each of these companies.
Does anyone know if when you're funded with LeeLoo does your orders appear in the live dom?
And is that trailing drawdown still active in the funded account?
A trailing drawdown that keeps going on forever sounds like a nightmare, like what if you want to withdraw profits? you will have even less of a drawdown.
Also curious if MES, TST, leeloo etc resets your drawdown if you withdraw all profits or are they really going to let you trade where 1 tick = lose the account(since you have no drawdown as you withdrawn all your profits and in this case, they didn't reset the trailing drawdown)