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There's a lot just in this little piece about really learning the in's and out's of a method. This is what makes it yours, no matter where you initially got the ideas from. A vendor can give you a useful start, but that's about it.
Nobody disputes need to do the work and make the method your one, but I am convinced it makes sense to spend time only if it comes from the valid source, i.e. the vendor can prove it works for him (broker statements) or demonstrate it live in front of audience or if in case of software provide free trial.
Years ago I purchased thestrategylab course for 450$ and spent half a year testing it, each and every day, bar by bar. Quite quickly I realized that setups as they described are not happening, either one bar is missing to complete setup or some other rules are not met (tens of them), while I saw the Master actively trading in the room and posting thousands of $ profits a day, I didn't dare to question him, who I am to do that, I probably need to work more. Half a year later I got sick, that was forced break from all this and as I see now opportunity to let it go. So either I am not clever enough, didn't put enough effort, method is "not for me" or perhaps it's elaborated scam to fool you with hundreds of rules. If back then me or someone else would question the Master whether he can actually trade according his own rules?
I believe many can relate to this story and I don't care about 450$, but the time wasted to validate nonsense.
We all have been in your shoes when we started. Some spent much more than $450 and thousands of hours wasted. I did.
I don't think there is anything wrong in requesting proof that the seller of a system or a room prove that he really trades the system for real (live account). 99% of these businesses are scams and I still didn't find the 1% that are honest, but if someone did, please let me know...
All true enough. Most of these things are worthless scams and the vendors are fakes.
I wish we could count on statements or whatever -- but it's important to realize that if they are faking the system, they will fake the statement too. How hard is that, in the world of computers? Plus, you can't trust the BS in "trading" rooms, as many reports by unhappy FIO members make clear. Simply put, they can and will just fake whatever they need to in order to get your money.
Hence the advice to not spend much or any money on them. If someone wants to sell me a book, he may be able to. After I have read it and tried it out, I may, or may not, be willing to spring for a little more. But anyone wanting very much is usually not to be trusted.
There is nothing wrong with wanting proof that they are legitimate. The problem is in getting it.
Yeah... There are all kinds of tricks they can do. I remember a guy called Chuck Hughes that loves to show statements, but people that sign for his service never gets the same results because they are snapshots of when the trades were good (or a selection of good trades during certain periods).
But an honest trading room (oxymoron?) could call the trades and show the statements of the trades for example. Also, if they are faking statements they could be liable. Right now, all these rooms are behind the 'curtain' of 'education' and the regular 'futures disclaimer'. Most rooms can't prove they were successful today, last week, last month or any period of time for that matter.
It would just make it more difficult. We need some level of transparency (until we get some regulators looking into this) or the scams will continue to multiply. Some of them, change their names, web site names, and just continue getting people's money. When this is going to stop and who is going to stop them?
I bought Brooks course because he implied that he was a profitable trader, he said he was a successful eye doctor and he quit because he could make more money trading and have more time for tennis. He said that he made very little of the materials that he sold which made it sound like he was just doing it to give back something to the trading community. Yes, I was new and naive, as are many coming into the market everyday, is this the price of admission? Does part of learning to trade necessarily entail following and paying until you learn better or give up? From many experienced members comments it seems that vendors are mostly a rabbit hole and if time is our most valuable resource then we should be doing everything we can to help novices not waste it.
edit: Should have been a question.... should we help novices not waste time or am I thinking about this in the wrong way?
Also, I'm not saying any of Brooks claims are true or false, but as a noob I just figured no one could make claims that weren't true in such a performance based endeavor, lol.
We can stand at the end of the cliff and scream all we want at them, but most will not listen. Unfortunately most have to experience a fall to learn from it. But that doesn't mean that some of us won't still try to tell others.
Unfortunately, validating it for your self IS the only way to see if the system is viable. Many vendors will say anything, or produce anything on their laptops including fake brokerage statements in order to get your money. I have spent well over 10k on my trading education since 1998. I would guess that most of these sources could not or would not have sent me statements if I asked...but I learned a little from all of them and some of them a lot to this very day. Heck, if you can get one decent set-up that you can backtest and add to your trading plan it's well worth it. I would not get so hung up on proof....you can learn a lot from knowing what does not work as well. Also, keep in mind...even if you get proof like brokerage statements (that are real) that proof will not give you any indication that you will be able to learn the method and duplicate the results from the materials provided. Many years ago (1992) I sent a guy 200 bucks for a course in stock trading. He provided detailed statements showing an impressive record. When I received his materials they were so simple that they basically amounted to him saying buy low and sell high....say what ?? Sad but true.
Al is selling something that now costs $249 for 36 hours of recorded content. If you get one trading idea, one set-up that you can backtest and add to your trading plan..it's worth it. If you get nothing or it does not work at all you get a greater insight on how not to trade. I went to a tony robbins 3 day seminar years ago...I think it was 2k. He offered no proof to me or anybody beforehand that I would get anything out of it whatsoever....but the place had hundreds of people there and many of them were on their 3rd seminar, 4th seminar, etc. I am not saying you can't or should not ask for the proof you want but I also understand al not providing statements. Since 1998 I have spend 10k plus on trader education...much of that in rooms, courses, webinars, books, etc. Most would not provide statements and the ones that did I could not duplicate their results from the materials provided.