This is an incredible thread, and I appreciate the honesty and the willingness to open up. It takes some serious guts.

Human psychology is fucked up. The pain from losing $1000 in is for some reason bigger than making $1000, in absolute terms, so to speak. Numbers turn red, and I feel like setting something on fire, just for some relaxation...

I am currently engaged in a fucked up exercise: shorting GBPJPY since the beginning of May. A hint: it is strongly bullish. It is a small account, and I am learning to smile in the face of a 30% drawdown. Smart ass remarks are welcome. It is beginning to feel seriously stupid. Just sayin'

First, let me say that I really feel for you. I can "sense" all the suffering you went through, reading your initial post.
However, that being said, a few thoughts:

1- Avg loss > Avg gain = Bad "Trader's Equation" (thanks to Al Brooks).
2- You're no longer at the age (nor in the position) to dollar-cost average in investing new money; you don't have the new money, if I'm not mistaken.
3- In your life, you tried and did several things and were successful at several, which should make you happy. But not at trading. So be it, man. Let it go, let it go.

Good luck to you.

Just my two bits.

Trader146 

Find a mentor with a proven track record of success.

Hello Trader146,

Thank you for sharing your story.

Did you ever find a mentor with a proven track record of success?

Thank you

I just wanted to post an update. I'm still at APEX. You can see my account status below.

I've come to accept that I am not a good discretionary trader. I'm not just figuring that out but I've finally accepted it. But I haven't quit trading. I'm now using an algo that has about a 75% win rate. It doesn't do the stupid things that I sometimes do like countertrend trading, moving my stops and doubling down. In fact, when I first started using it, I would assume I know better than it did, interfere with it, and cause it to lose money, or miss good trades. Most of the success you'll see below is because of the algo.

And no, I never found a mentor. I have found people who are making money, but they are not sharing (or selling) their strategies. I know a guy who withdrew $260k over a 3 months period. I'll post a screenshot from his account below as well. He posted tips but not his strategy. But just seeing someone actually making money was motivating. I'll get there (withdrawing, not saying $260k) evenually. After 25 years, I'm in no hurry.


Well, I get an error when trying to post images. What I was going to show is my 4 funded accounts and several other evals well on there way to the funding goal. I'll come back at some point and post images if the problem below is ever resolved.


ACCOUNT-SUMMARY-8-11-23


NOTICE - THERE IS CURRENTLY AN ISSUE, WILL BE RESOLVED AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE!

[IMG]https://nexusfi.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=<?xml version="1.0" encoding="windows-1252"?>
<error><![CDATA[Trader146, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
- Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
- If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.]]></error>
[/IMG]


Jacob's Withdrawals


NOTICE - THERE IS CURRENTLY AN ISSUE, WILL BE RESOLVED AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE!

[IMG]https://nexusfi.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=<?xml version="1.0" encoding="windows-1252"?>
<error><![CDATA[Trader146, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
- Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
- If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.]]></error>
[/IMG]

Trader146 

Well, I get an error when trying to post images.

Should be fixed

Big Mike 

The image upload issue seems to be resolved. Worse, it wasn't me -- it just started working again just like it had previously stopped. Keeping a close eye on that. Please notify me of any problems! Mike

Here are the screenshots I intended to post above. An to those who suggested I give up, all I can say is "I didn't come this far just to come this far." I heard that somewhere and it definitely applies in this case.

I haven't started trading my PA's yet as I'm trying to get very familiar and comfortable with the Algo. I also have some other Algos I'm working on so I can have a diversified system. I'm doing what I'm comfortable with. As I said above, I'm in no hurry. I'm debt free with a very low cost of living and other sources of income. Greed does not have a grip on me anymore.

Note that I'm posting Jacob's results to show what's possible. At one point I use to think nobody was making money...except the so call "trading gurus". Although I have no illusions of achieving the same level of success as Jacob, I do believe I could achieve 1/10th of that. And that's good enough for me to continue putting in the effort. By the way, Jacob doesn't use Algos.

Thanks

PS: Please don't go bothering Jacob for his strategies or for coaching. He has posted all he's going to share in the APEX Facebook group. Read his post. It was helpful to me and all you are going to get. He doesn't need your money.


ACCOUNT-SUMMARY-8-11-23


Jacob's Withdrawals


Jacob's Equity Curve

Thank you for sharing this. It must have been difficult to share, can't imagine how it must have been just enduring this path you took for 25 years. From your post I got a feeling as if you are spinning in the same circles over and over again, without truly gaining some perspective.

As a beginner I am intrigued and also a bit scared by posts of this nature.

BeetleBaum 

Trader146, my story is longER! I felt your story and am just a bit older than you about to turn 64. I fell in love with the markets in 1969 (age 10), bought my first stock in 1972 (age 13), and started trading futures in 1982 (age 23). If you would like to share resources and collaborate, please message me back. I have winning methods and would love to share stories and ideas freely, no strings. I'm just up the road from you in the Chattanooga area (East Ridge). I also have chronic health problems and love the idea of RV living. I use TradeStation and EasyLanguage. Matt

i also use tradestation and easylanguage... i daytrade futures for gold, natty and crude. do you daytrade futures and if so which ones.

thanks in advance

toucan

Thank you for sharing. Reading this thread puts everything in perspective and takes a bit the pressure off as a beginner. On social media you get the impression that it's easy and everyone's profitable and I am a failure for not being consistently profitable at 2 years in. But it's ok, it takes time.

Trader146 

My story is long. Over 25 years long. It's so long that I've enlisted the help of Chat-GPT to make a palatable read out of my ramblings. However, she made things sound much better than they really are so I'm going to include both my ramblings and her rewrites. My version is more complete, however there may be grammatical errors. If I've left out anything you'd like to know, please ask later. I've been wanting to vent for a long time and you guys are the only people on the planet that would understand. I finally wrote this today because I get so sad when I see the success of others I grew up with in ordinary careers, some of which I would have never expected to be successful, and how I avoid those type of careers like the plague to pursue trading, only to ultimately achieve nothing...yet. I'm closer to success at trading now than I've ever been, but it doesn't really feel like it and after all this time, is it really success? I'm at that stage where I give back two weeks of profits in one trade because I'm unwilling to take a lose or some other dumb reason. And who knows how long that stage will last. I'm now 62 years old and I'm finally recognizing that I'm running out of time because I'm starting to have age related health issues. And if you are my age, you know how expensive health insurance is for us, so with the added health issues, I sometimes get very depressed. I expect I will receive some negative feedback and that I probably should have spent this time reviewing my trades and working on a plan to avoid the mistakes that keep holding me back. Well I do that also and it has helped. Hopefully one day I will correct enough mistakes to allow me to actually make a withdrawal from my trading account. I've done some things that nobody else I know would do in pursuit of a "career". Especially after failing at it for so long. To them...and to me...it's not passion. It's obession. And not a good obession. More like a gambling obession. But guess what, I know other traders that have done things just as crazy. I know drug addicts that have done things just as crazy. And I know alcoholics that have done things just as crazy. I read in some trading book that there is a thin line between trading and gambling. I think is was Alexander Elder. Well I crossed that line a long time ago and I'm still trying to get back. Please read my story below. I don't know if this will be helpful to anyone but I know if I had read something like this when I got started I would probably have taken the 90% failure rate warning more seriously. Enjoy? Me to GPT-4: Below are some fact about my life that I want you to use to create a forum post to share my story. The forum is for futures traders. I may repeat some facts and get things out of order. I would like you to create a concise, legible story that readers may enjoy. My facts: I started pursuing a career in day trading back in 1998 and I've still not achieved success as of the year is 2023. I'm 62 years old now. Although I quit trading a number of times to work in traditional careers so that I could actually earn money to survive, I kept returning to trading. I convinced myself that it was the only way I would ever get rich and that once I got the hang of it, it would be much easier than actually "working" for a living. Well as it turns out, making money trading has been the most difficult thing I've ever tried to do, and if I had known it would be this difficult, I would have definitely chosen a different path. I was introduced to trading in 1998. It is now 2023. I am finally seeing glimpses of success. I'm at that stage of making money consistently for 1-2 weeks, and then losing it all in one trade. I never thought it would take this long to learn to trade. To my friends and family I am a failure, and I've often thought so too. I've been very close to homeless several times because I refused to give up on trading. So I would only worked my day job when I have to. In 2016 I reduced my living expenses as much as possible by moving out of my $1300 per month apartment in Atlanta and moving into a small motorhome I bought 6 months earlier. My plan was to travel the country and enjoy national parks and hang gliding (something I've wanted to do all my life) while earning a living trading, but when the day came to move into my RV, I literally had a nervous breakdown because I knew I wasn't going to be able to survive from trading. I was not profitable, but I just couldn't go on paying $1300 per month, something I had been doing at that point for 10 years. But I felt that once I move into this RV, it would be the last time I'd live in a real house and that I would actually be just one step from homelessness. I mean, what would I do if the RV broke down. When I moved out of my apartment in 2016, I sold everything I could to build a nest egg. So everything that wouldn't fit into my 22ft RV, I sold. I ended up with $14,000. I had even planned to sell my car but like I said, when it came time to move into the RV, I was so freaked out that I started looking for places I could rent to park it. I had practiced parking at different spots around the Atlanta metro area, but I felt like I was doing something wrong every night. I didn't sleep well because I expected someone to come knocking on my door at any moment to tell me to move or to tow my vehicle. It was a very uncomfortable feeling, so I reached out to several friends of mine to see if I could park in their drive way. Luckily for me, one of them said yes, and I felt so relieved. This was a guy I had known since high school and we were pretty good friends. In fact, I'm the one who convinced him to move to Atlanta. We were both from a small town in Louisiana. He agreed to let me park in his yard for $300 per month. I would have water and electrical hookups, and I could use his laundry room, so I was happy to pay him. Also, the feeling of homelessness went away and I got to keep my car now that I had somewhere to park it. I thought I'd only be there 2 years. I was there for 4. Feeling better now that I had a place to park my RV, I started to travel to try and fulfill my dream. That helped but every time I had a bad trading day, I felt I'd be in that tiny RV forever (or until it broke down) and that I would never achieve my dream. One winter, it got so cold that I could barely keep warm in my RV, so I decided to drive to Florida as it was much warmer there. I spent two weeks visiting the cities along the eastern coast. Florida is very RV friendly and the roads are very flat and smooth. This is important in an old, underpowered RV. I made it all the way down to Palm Beach and although I had to get back to Atlanta because my tags on my RV expired in January, I knew that the next winter, I'd want to come back and stay even longer. But it was pretty warm in Florida, even during the winter, and I knew I would need air conditioning which means I needed a dependable generator. Since you could no longer get parts for the original generators designed for my RV or buy a new one made to fit it, I decided to design my own. Well, it came out so well that other owners of the same model of RV wanted one also. That's how I got into the generator business. This was right on time because I had lost interest in IT support. It was too demanding and required that I be in Atlanta all the time. With the generators, I could build them 3-6 months out of the year and still be able to travel. I say all that to say that while I had other sources of income, I still wasn't happy because it still didn't offer the freedom that trading was supposed to give me. I quit my job at HP in 2003 so that I could receive the $36,000 severance packet which was supposed to allow me to trade fulltime. I thought that being about to focus on trading fulltime would allow me to achieve success. It didn't work. I ran out of money in just 2.5 years. During that time I rented rooms from friend and family until I finally gave up on trading and started offering onsite IT services. You don't know how good it felt to finally have money coming in instead of continuously going out. That business has supported me ever since to some degree, although the bulk of my income now days comes from another business I started building generators for tiny RV that had no other options. At that point I took a 10 year break from trading but I still kept an eye on the markets. But while I was now living comfortability, my friends and family still seen me as a borderline failure because I didn't have the things that they had, like nice houses, cars, health insurance, security. I may as well been a drug addict or alcoholic or casino gambler, because I didn't look any different to those on the outside looking in. There's was no need in me telling them I'm starting to see some success, because I've probably said that before and it turned out not to be true, so why should they believe me now. And I'm even started to agree with them. I'm mean, I don't own anything. I live in a RV since 2015. I'm 62 and can't retire. I have no retirement savings. If it wasn't for my grandmother giving me a piece of property back in the 80's, I wouldn't have a place to live now. But that's another story. So I've been wanting to come on here and tell my story because honestly, I think it's pretty sad. What has triggered it today is seeing a post on Facebook by a childhood friend of mine who was a hopeless casino gambler for many, many years who got clean about 10 years ago, got his real estate license, and is now a millionaire broker and investor. And it's not just him. Many of my childhood friends who would have probably been voted most likely to fail are doing better than me because I put all my eggs in the trading basket. Now I must admit, I would have given up on trading if I could have qualified for my dream job which was commercial pilot, but let's just say I couldn't qualify, and it wasn't because of skill. My fight instructor told me I was the most nature pilot he had ever worked with, and he had instructed for over 30 years. So I decided I would just buy my own plane when I made it as a trader. Well, let's just say I don't own a plane. Ok, so that's my past. Let me tell you about my present. I'm now living in a much larger RV, a 36' fifthwheel by DRV. They make high-end, four season RV's designed for fulltime living. I got a 2008 used for $17,000 which was a fairly good deal considering its condition. It's parked on my property which was giving to me by my grandmother back in the 80's. There was a house on the property which I lived in from 82' to 87', but it burnt down in 1993. I was a welder when I lived there and I built a welding shop in the back yard. It is still standing and I have now removed the sheet metal, raised the roof, covered it with solar panels, and parked my fifthwheel under it. So I'm now living mortgage and rent free with only propane expenses in the winter time. I still build a few generators per year to keep food in my stomach and to now pay my Apex fees so I can pursue funding. I've learned that one of my problems achieving success as a trader was trading my own money. I didn't have money that I could afford to lose so with ever trade I would take a small loss to keep from having a big loss which I ended up with anyway because many small losses add up to one big loss. So far, trading with APEX has relieved some of that financial pressure although that might change once I'm funded. Because at that point you are trading your own money again, although it's house money actually. Maybe that's better. We will see. Ok, below is what Chat-GPT put together from my ramblings above. I also ask for revisions so there are 3 different version. If nothing else, it's an interesting use of AI. Title: The Long and Winding Road to Futures Trading Success Hey fellow traders! I wanted to share my story with you all, as I think it's an interesting one and a testament to perseverance in this tough field of day trading. I started my journey back in 1998 and have been trying to achieve success in trading ever since. I'm 62 years old now and throughout these years, I've quit trading multiple times to work in other careers just to make ends meet, but I always found myself coming back to it. I believed that trading was my ticket to wealth and an easier life. It's 2023 now and after 25 years, I am finally starting to see glimpses of success. I can make money consistently for a week or two before losing it all in one trade. To my friends and family, I may seem like a failure, but I've never given up on my dream. At one point, I even downsized my living situation to a small RV and parked it on a friend's property to reduce expenses and stay focused on trading. Over the years, I've held various jobs to support my trading endeavors. I quit my job at HP in 2003 to receive a $36,000 severance package and trade full-time, only to run out of money in 2.5 years. Eventually, I stumbled into a niche business building generators for a specific brand of RV, which now provides me with a decent income. Despite my other sources of income, I still haven't achieved the level of freedom I hoped trading would give me. I've often felt like a borderline failure, especially when I compare myself to my peers who have built successful careers and lives outside of trading. Currently, I live in a larger, more comfortable RV and have parked it on a piece of property that was given to me by my grandmother. I'm still building generators and trading with APEX in the hopes of achieving success in this field. In summary, my journey has been a long and winding one. I've had to make sacrifices and find creative ways to support myself while pursuing my dream of becoming a successful trader. While I'm still not quite there yet, I'm determined to keep pushing forward and hope that my story can serve as an inspiration to those who may be struggling as well. Let me know if you have any questions or if you'd like to share your own experiences in this challenging world of futures trading. Thanks for reading! Me: Please rewrite it, and include more of the information I provided you. Chat-GPT: Title: A Lifelong Journey: My Struggles and Pursuit of Success in Futures Trading Hello fellow traders! I wanted to take the time to share my story with all of you in this futures trading forum, as I believe it's a unique and interesting tale that highlights the challenges, dedication, and perseverance required to succeed in this field. My journey began back in 1998, when I started pursuing a career in day trading with high hopes and dreams of wealth and an easier life. Fast forward to 2023, and at the age of 62, I am still working towards that elusive success. Over the years, I've quit trading multiple times, opting to work in various other professions to earn a living, only to find myself returning to trading each time. The road to success has been a difficult one, filled with countless setbacks and obstacles. Making money from trading has proven to be the most challenging thing I've ever attempted, but my determination and resilience have kept me going. Despite my continued efforts, my progress in trading has been slow, often consisting of making money consistently for a week or two before losing it all in one trade. To my friends and family, I may appear as a failure, but I've refused to give up on my dream. In order to stay focused on trading, I've made numerous sacrifices in my personal life. In 2015, I downsized my living situation, moving out of my $1,300 per month apartment in Atlanta and into a small RV. I sold everything that wouldn't fit in the RV, hoping that by reducing my living expenses, I could concentrate more on trading. During this period, I parked my RV on a friend's property, paying him $300 per month for water, electrical hookups, and the use of his laundry room. I stayed there for four years, traveling occasionally to try and fulfill my dreams of exploring the country while earning a living from trading. Throughout my journey, I've held various jobs to support my trading endeavors. I quit my job at HP in 2003 to receive a $36,000 severance package, which I hoped would allow me to trade full-time and achieve success. However, the money ran out in just 2.5 years, forcing me to rent rooms from friends and family until I eventually started offering onsite IT services. Later, I stumbled into a niche business building generators for a specific brand of RV, which now provides me with a significant portion of my income. While this has allowed me to live comfortably, my friends and family still view me as a borderline failure because I haven't achieved the success and financial security they have. Currently, I live in a larger and more comfortable RV, parked on a piece of property that my grandmother gave me years ago. I still build generators, and I'm trading with APEX in the hopes of finally achieving success in the world of futures trading. Throughout my journey, I've realized that one of my main challenges has been trading with my own money. The fear of losing funds I couldn't afford to part with has often led me to take small losses, which would accumulate and result in significant overall losses. Trading with APEX has helped alleviate some of this pressure, but I still have a long way to go. In summary, my lifelong pursuit of success in futures trading has been filled with hardships, sacrifices, and constant learning. Although I haven't achieved the level of success I initially hoped for, I remain dedicated and hopeful that my perseverance will eventually pay off. I share my story as a testament to the challenges and dedication required in this field and hope that it can serve as an inspiration to those who may be struggling with their own journey. Me: It's seems you are trying to make this story positive with a happy ending. I think it's more of a cautionary tale of what could happen to those who pursue this career. I've been at it 25 years on and off and still have not achieved success. And success for me at this point is definitely not guaranteed. This story is quite sad. I am not a happy or mentally healthy person. If there is a bright side to my story, it's what I've learned from it which is don't assume you will be successful, don't put all your eggs in one basket, don't attempt to learn by trial and error, find a mentor that you can confirm some level of success from, don't trade your own money, know that this is real work and it's not easy money, and so many other things. This story doesn't have a happy ending...yet. Just lessons learned so far. As I said, a cautionary tale. Chat-GPT: Title: A Cautionary Tale: My 25-Year Struggle in Pursuit of Trading Success Dear fellow traders, I'm here to share my story with all of you in this futures trading forum as a cautionary tale that highlights the harsh reality, hardships, and potential pitfalls that one may face while chasing the elusive dream of success in this field. My journey started in 1998 when I was introduced to day trading. With dreams of wealth and an easier life, I ventured into this world, believing it was the key to my future success. Now, in 2023, at the age of 62, I have yet to find the success I've been longing for after 25 years of on-and-off attempts. Throughout the years, I've quit trading multiple times, seeking alternative careers to make a living, but always finding myself drawn back to trading. I've faced countless setbacks, and making money from trading has proven to be the most challenging thing I've ever attempted. It has taken a toll on my mental health, and I can't say that I'm a happy person due to the struggles I've encountered. To support my trading aspirations, I've made significant sacrifices in my personal life. I've downsized my living situation, sold my belongings, and held various jobs to keep myself afloat while chasing my dream. However, these efforts have not led me to the success I hoped for, and I continue to struggle with feelings of failure. The financial pressure of trading with my own money has been a constant challenge, leading me to take small losses that eventually accumulated into more significant overall losses. While trading with APEX has helped to alleviate some of this pressure, success is still far from guaranteed. If there's any silver lining in my story, it's the lessons I've learned over the years. To those who are considering a career in trading or are already in the midst of their journey, I offer these insights: Never assume success is guaranteed. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Avoid learning by trial and error; seek guidance from knowledgeable sources. Find a mentor with a proven track record of success. Don't trade your own money if you can avoid it. Recognize that trading is real work and not an easy path to wealth. My story may not have a happy ending yet, but I hope that by sharing my cautionary tale, I can help others avoid the same mistakes I've made and the hardships I've endured. Remember that futures trading can be an unforgiving world, and it's essential to approach it with the right mindset, a solid plan, and an understanding of the potential challenges that lie ahead.

Hello sir

I'm 25 yo, and I want to say one thing to this first : Thank you. You are past you 60's. I'm in my middle 20's. I'm inexperienced in a lot of ways. You are experienced in a lot of ways. We are here to learn life is a learning journey. I won't pretend I have an answer to the following questions but they are worth mentioning still..

What's success man ?
Owning things ?
Having a "situation" ?
Being settled ?
A number on a screen ?

What I personally see, is not failure.
I see someone who has committed incredibly strong to a goal. I see persistence. I see a strong sense of Resourcefulness. You made things work. All the way to today. It was not fancy, but it worked. In very different environment too. I see courage. Courage of standing up for your dreams.courage of choosing a different route. I also see doubt. A lot of it. Which is good because people who never doubt eventually get "killed", that's kinda how the world works. But too much doubt will also get your killed. I think this post is actually not really trading related and I'm sure deep down you know it. It's about much deeper questions : what's success ? What do you want to become ? Are you proud of yourself ? Do you have regrets ? How to live with your past ? What do you want next ? What matters most between what you think and what other people believe ? How can you take ownership in your story and your choices ?

As far as I'm concerned, I'm sure you have about every single thing you need to be a good trader. Your life path and experiences prove it in a lot of ways (maybe not so much in terms of risk management but eh you can change that).

But what I am more worried about is that I believe you need to find fulfilment in life regardless of trading. And that should be your primary concern in my humble 25 yo opinion. I'm obsessed. Just like you. I'm weird and can be considered as a failure sometimes too by society standards. I fill different. A curse and a blessing.

But I'm pretty sure that in order to be the trader (and more importantly) the person i want to be, I need to find peace and balance in myself first. Trading profits are at the EOD just a bonus, and they have positive correlation with that peace and balance.

As the old saying goes : the more you fuck around, the more you're gonna find out. You did find a lot about yourself and life sir. And that's no picnic. That's wealth. That's something to be proud of.

On these words, I must get back to work

Wish you the best man thank you for that great story.

(sorry my English is not perfect I'm french.)

Arthur